From jay_hidalgo at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  1 00:01:35 2004
From: jay_hidalgo at hotmail.com (Jay Hidalgo)
Date: Tue Nov 30 23:44:42 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] SATLUG LINUX COURSE (with Free beer)
In-Reply-To: <20041201040242.55553.qmail@web50109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY12-F3819602AACADEDC14A724882BF0@phx.gbl>

>
>Richard,
>
>What's a d00d?  Or a d00ds?  Are you one?  Does it
>have boobies?
>
>Mary

Mary,

I hope not!!! I wouldn't want to go to a meeting that has d00ds with 
b00bs.... Thats just scary!!!

:P~~

Maybe the FREE BEER gave them b00bs? I heard beer is umm... high in 
carbs....

-Jay Hidalgo




>
>2. As to the overwhelming membership that SATLUG is
>claimed to have..
>d00ds, I have been to the last two meetings and there
>weren't 15
>people (if that) there including myself.
>_______________________________________________


From tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org  Wed Dec  1 00:58:37 2004
From: tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org (Tom Weeks)
Date: Wed Dec  1 00:40:56 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] serial servos or actuators
In-Reply-To: <79ec289f0411301436fa46bdf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <79ec289f0411301436fa46bdf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200412010058.37409.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org>

On Tuesday 30 November 2004 04:36 pm, Jeremy Mann wrote:
> I'm curious if any knows of any pan and tilt servos/actuators that I
> can control through a serial interface. My intention is to place my
> network camera on a device which I can control pan and tilt in a web
> interface.

Funny.. I literally just got done tell steve that for the May Open Source 
Fest.. that I didn't want to do another boring Sendmail, Bind, Kickstart 
class.. but wanted to do a class on hardware hacking... Either:
-Building your own floppy/CD distro home firewall from scraps
-Parallel port relay control <---
-Hacking the InfoGlobe

That middle one is the way you probably want to go.  As someone else stated.. 
if you used the serial port.. and you didn't want to have to bit bang the 
handshake lines.. then your best bet is definitely the parallel port control 
method.  Simple.. and cheap.  Just buy one of these boards and control is a 
snap:
http://www.electronics123.com/edutronics/catalogue/products0460.htm#1046
or
http://www.industrologic.com/rio8desc.htm

Example use:
	http://halloween.sitenation.com/site/view/article/1082575651/ca

(software here http://quozl.netrek.org/?toc=1#968331600)

Fun stuff.. Especially if we could make a week course of it... using the 
electronic kit.. solder it ourselves (I can teach that too).. and then 
control it with the software that we compile on linux! :v)

I guess I should talk to Steve about this further.. 

Tweeks
From tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org  Wed Dec  1 01:07:11 2004
From: tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org (Tom Weeks)
Date: Wed Dec  1 00:49:17 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Tape Drives
In-Reply-To: <IKEGIFLIPIFIHMKEHPEHGEJOCAAA.rhewitt@satx.rr.com>
References: <IKEGIFLIPIFIHMKEHPEHGEJOCAAA.rhewitt@satx.rr.com>
Message-ID: <200412010107.11673.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org>

On Tuesday 30 November 2004 11:37 pm, Robert J Hewitt wrote:
> Does anybody know what I need to get my tape drive working with FC2.
> I have a WangDAT 3400DX on an adaptec SCSI controller.  I have not loaded
> any new
> drivers and when I loaded FC2 the drive was on the computer already. The
> hardware browser
> in Gnome sees the drive as /dev/st0 but when I try to mount it it says it
> does not exsist.
> any help will do

heh..  Never worked with tapes eh?

Do this:

	# mt -f /dev/st0 status
	# mt -f /dev/st0 rewind
	# mt -f /dev/st0 eject

You don't mount it.. you just access the device file.

To tar up /home, compressed... you do:
	# tar czvf /dev/st0 /home


<Poof>.. you just backed up /home.

Also.. you should check to verify that you have the symlink 
/dev/tape-->/dev/st0.  If you don't.. set it up now:

	# ln -s /dev/st0 /dev/tape

Some programs have problems if they don't see that link.

My book goes into much greater details on backups, including Tower of Hanoi 
backups, dump, vs, tar, vs others... and then gets into UNIX Backup levels 
and tape rotation schemes.. In fact.. I'm supposed to be putting by TOH 
Backup scripts out on the linuxtrouble.com web site.. I guess I should do 
that so that people can actually use them.. heh..

Anyway.. let me know if there's anything else.

Tweeks


>
>
>
>    RObert
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Satlug mailing list
> Satlug@satlug.org
> http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug

From tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org  Wed Dec  1 01:10:36 2004
From: tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org (Tom Weeks)
Date: Wed Dec  1 00:52:42 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Using mkisofs
In-Reply-To: <41AA99B4.9090806@texas.net>
References: <41AA99B4.9090806@texas.net>
Message-ID: <200412010110.36863.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org>

On Sunday 28 November 2004 09:38 pm, Walt DuBose wrote:
> Why doesn't this work?
>
>
> cd /home/backups
> mkisofs -R -T -J -V "backup" -v -o /home/tmp/backup.iso

Forgot to give it the working directory...

Try:
	# mkisofs -R -T -J -V "backup" -v -o /home/tmp/backup.iso . <--dot

Tweeks
From imeinzen at gmail.com  Wed Dec  1 06:52:53 2004
From: imeinzen at gmail.com (Ian Meinzen)
Date: Wed Dec  1 06:35:07 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] serial servos or actuators
In-Reply-To: <79ec289f0411301436fa46bdf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <79ec289f0411301436fa46bdf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4603d9ee041201045252d5b6c3@mail.gmail.com>

For my senior design project at St. Mary's, I designed a pan tilt head
for a Logitech web camera using a couple of R/C servos.  They actually
worked pretty well - they use PWM for their position - I believe it
was a .5 to 1.5ms pulse over a 20ms cycle.  I used a USB connection
instead of the parallel port, mainly because the parallel port will
only allow something like a 2.5mA draw off each pin, and the USB
device could draw 100mA.  I still had to power the servo separately
(it required I think up to 1A under heavy load), but overall the thing
worked like a charm, and was pretty easy to do - the image processing
for the rest of the project was a different story :).

Ian


On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:36:01 -0600, Jeremy Mann <jeremymann@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm curious if any knows of any pan and tilt servos/actuators that I
> can control through a serial interface. My intention is to place my
> network camera on a device which I can control pan and tilt in a web
> interface.
> 
> --
> Jeremy
> _______________________________________________
> Satlug mailing list
> Satlug@satlug.org
> http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
> 


-- 
Ian R. Meinzen <imeinzen@gmail.com>
From jeremymann at gmail.com  Wed Dec  1 08:42:17 2004
From: jeremymann at gmail.com (Jeremy Mann)
Date: Wed Dec  1 08:24:22 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] serial servos or actuators
In-Reply-To: <41ACFCAC.3030203@liberto.org>
References: <79ec289f0411301436fa46bdf@mail.gmail.com>
	 <41ACF921.1000504@syn-recon.net> <41ACFCAC.3030203@liberto.org>
Message-ID: <79ec289f0412010642500f9fee@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the tip Andrew. It seems thoroughout all these posts, the
parallel port seems to be the easiest. Now to fine tune my building
skills.



On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:05:16 -0600, Andrew Hodel <zip@liberto.org> wrote:
> Depending on how accurate you need to be, you could easily do this with
> the parallel port and a DAC or pnp/npn's.  Either control 2 servos with
> 4 positions each, or 1 with 8, or use a multiplexer and a more complex
> software program to have 255 or so diff outputs.
> 
> Doing it with a serial port would require an interpreter on the servo,
> although it would allow you to do much more, I would look at boards w/
> analog/digital io, that you control via serial.
> 
> You could also do it with a cpld (Xilinx) dev board, which has
> analog/digital io, but that would be quite complicated, relative to the
> other paths.
> 
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> 
> pandemic@syn-recon.net wrote:
> 
> > Jeremy Mann wrote:
> >
> >> I'm curious if any knows of any pan and tilt servos/actuators that I
> >> can control through a serial interface. My intention is to place my
> >> network camera on a device which I can control pan and tilt in a web
> >> interface.
> >>
> > Ha! I was just fixing to post the same question! But my project is
> > leaning more toward a robot and two battery powered AirSoft Guns (or
> > maybe one paint ball gun).  Either way id be interested to know also.
> >
> > Florian
> > _______________________________________________
> > Satlug mailing list
> > Satlug@satlug.org
> > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Satlug mailing list
> Satlug@satlug.org
> http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
> 


-- 
Jeremy
From mattvaldes at satx.rr.com  Wed Dec  1 08:43:33 2004
From: mattvaldes at satx.rr.com (mattvaldes@satx.rr.com)
Date: Wed Dec  1 08:25:36 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] May Open Source Fest (was: serial servos or actuators)
Message-ID: <ccc69bccce59.ccce59ccc69b@texas.rr.com>



----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Weeks <tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org>
Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2004 0:58 am
Subject: Re: [SATLUG] serial servos or actuators

> 
> Funny.. I literally just got done tell steve that for the May Open 
> Source 
> Fest.. that I didn't want to do another boring Sendmail, Bind, 
> Kickstart 
> class.. but wanted to do a class on hardware hacking... Either:
> -Building your own floppy/CD distro home firewall from scraps
> -Parallel port relay control <---
> -Hacking the InfoGlobe
...
> I guess I should talk to Steve about this further.. 
> 
> Tweeks


Fun stuff! I hope things get worked out for one (or more!) of  these classes.

-Matt

From skolars at cis.sac.accd.edu  Wed Dec  1 08:47:55 2004
From: skolars at cis.sac.accd.edu (steve kolars)
Date: Wed Dec  1 08:30:37 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Sybase Partners with IBM
Message-ID: <41ADD99B.7030402@cis.sac.accd.edu>

I thought this one was interesting:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/01/sybase_partners_ibm/

Steve

From chuck at tetlow.net  Wed Dec  1 11:28:18 2004
From: chuck at tetlow.net (Chuck)
Date: Wed Dec  1 11:10:21 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Sybase Partners with IBM
In-Reply-To: <41ADD99B.7030402@cis.sac.accd.edu>
References: <41ADD99B.7030402@cis.sac.accd.edu>
Message-ID: <1101922099.20292.635.camel@laptop>

On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 08:47, steve kolars wrote:
> I thought this one was interesting:
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/01/sybase_partners_ibm/
> 
> Steve
> 

Interesting reading -- but check this one out!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/19/microsoft_wto_winning_without_firing/


Chuck



From h_oudini at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  1 19:49:18 2004
From: h_oudini at hotmail.com (Kase Saylor)
Date: Wed Dec  1 13:32:08 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Redirecting input to a running process
In-Reply-To: <79ec289f0412010642500f9fee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY20-F15F90BAB0CF2957AC9FE8E8BF0@phx.gbl>

All,

I would like to redirect or pipe user input to a process that is running in 
the background, but I'm not sure how. The process that is running is 
normally used like the following:

>fsgtest <fsg file>
test phrase

fsgtest takes an .fsg file (these are grammar files used by IBM's ViaVoice) 
and then accepts user input to test if a certain phrase would be accepted by 
the speech engine based upon the grammar file being tested. I cannot just 
pass the .fsg file and the phrase from the command line. I would like to 
automate the process so that I could have a file of phrases I would like to 
check. So, if I ran fsgtest <fsg file> as a background process, could I then 
pass phrases to the process?

Thanks for any help.

Kase


From h_oudini at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  1 19:56:14 2004
From: h_oudini at hotmail.com (Kase Saylor)
Date: Wed Dec  1 13:39:10 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Redirecting input to a running process
In-Reply-To: <BAY20-F15F90BAB0CF2957AC9FE8E8BF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY20-F34326582A9542B03D64051E8BF0@phx.gbl>

>
>All,
>
>I would like to redirect or pipe user input to a process that is running in 
>the background, but I'm not sure how. The process that is running is 
>normally used like the following:
>
>>fsgtest <fsg file>
>test phrase
>
>fsgtest takes an .fsg file (these are grammar files used by IBM's ViaVoice) 
>and then accepts user input to test if a certain phrase would be accepted 
>by the speech engine based upon the grammar file being tested. I cannot 
>just pass the .fsg file and the phrase from the command line. I would like 
>to automate the process so that I could have a file of phrases I would like 
>to check. So, if I ran fsgtest <fsg file> as a background process, could I 
>then pass phrases to the process?
>
>Thanks for any help.
>
>Kase
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Satlug mailing list
>Satlug@satlug.org
>http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug

OK, I figured it out. Sorry to waste anybody's time. Here's what I did (in 
case there is someone else on the list that would like to know):

>fsgtest test.fsg < phrases.txt

That's it!


From yatinhat at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  1 19:36:49 2004
From: yatinhat at yahoo.com (Mary Yatti)
Date: Wed Dec  1 21:19:02 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] OT: d00d(s)
In-Reply-To: <200411301800.iAUI0IY13786@alamo.satlug.org>
Message-ID: <20041202033649.69158.qmail@web50107.mail.yahoo.com>

A few of you emailed me personally either to praise or
admonish me.  But, I honestly have never heard the
term 'd00d' before.



From snafu at urdirect.net  Wed Dec  1 22:42:44 2004
From: snafu at urdirect.net (Donn D.)
Date: Wed Dec  1 22:24:08 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] OT: d00d(s)
In-Reply-To: <20041202033649.69158.qmail@web50107.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041202033649.69158.qmail@web50107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41AE9D44.7080303@urdirect.net>

Mary Yatti wrote:

>A few of you emailed me personally either to praise or
>admonish me.  But, I honestly have never heard the
>term 'd00d' before.
>
>  
>
I think I got a little lost on this thread.  Is it that Mary has never 
heard of "dude" spelled as 'd00d', or is it that she has never heard of 
dude in general...?
Maybe the original poster of "d00d" should have qualified his statements 
with "d00ds & d00dettes"...




From mikeaw at gmail.com  Thu Dec  2 00:11:20 2004
From: mikeaw at gmail.com (Mike Wallace)
Date: Wed Dec  1 23:53:24 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] OT: d00d(s)
In-Reply-To: <41AE9D44.7080303@urdirect.net>
References: <20041202033649.69158.qmail@web50107.mail.yahoo.com>
	 <41AE9D44.7080303@urdirect.net>
Message-ID: <4154519d0412012211697389ba@mail.gmail.com>

Glad this is out of the way.  Now we can get back to being l33t h4x0r d00dz.


On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:42:44 -0600, Donn D. <snafu@urdirect.net> wrote:
> Mary Yatti wrote:
> 
> >A few of you emailed me personally either to praise or
> >admonish me.  But, I honestly have never heard the
> >term 'd00d' before.
> >
> >
> >
> I think I got a little lost on this thread.  Is it that Mary has never
> heard of "dude" spelled as 'd00d', or is it that she has never heard of
> dude in general...?
> Maybe the original poster of "d00d" should have qualified his statements
> with "d00ds & d00dettes"...
From skolars at cis.sac.accd.edu  Thu Dec  2 08:12:45 2004
From: skolars at cis.sac.accd.edu (steve kolars)
Date: Thu Dec  2 07:55:54 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Fedora 3 doesn't work under VMWare
In-Reply-To: <1100911156.5385.14.camel@cpe-065-184-036-022.nc.rr.com>
References: <20041120003316.27464.qmail@web50105.mail.yahoo.com>
	<1100911156.5385.14.camel@cpe-065-184-036-022.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <41AF22DD.8010809@cis.sac.accd.edu>

Cliff @ satlug wrote:

>On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 19:33, Mary Yatti wrote:
>  
>
>>Has anybody tried setting up Fedora Core 3 using
>>VMWare? 
>>_______________________________________________
>>Satlug mailing list
>>Satlug@satlug.org
>>http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
>>    
>>
>Taken from Fedora Core 3 release notes - this may be what you are
>looking for. 
>
>Cliff. 
>
>Note
>
>   VMware WS 4.5.2 is known to work on Fedora Core 3 after the following
>   workarounds are used:
>
>     o You must upgrade the kernel modules and configuration using the
>       unofficial vmware-any-any-* toolkit available from:
>
>       [5]http://platan.vc.cvut.cz/ftp/pub/vmware/
>
>     o After vmware-config.pl is run and the VMware modules are loaded,
>the
>       following command creates the /sys/class/* nodes needed for udev:
>
>       cp -rp /dev/vm* /etc/udev/devices/
>
>_______________________________________________
>Satlug mailing list
>Satlug@satlug.org
>http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
>
>
>  
>
I have read the notes.  I have done exactly what the notes say to do.  
It does not work.  If anyone gets it to work I would love to know about it.

Steve

From skolars at cis.sac.accd.edu  Thu Dec  2 08:15:58 2004
From: skolars at cis.sac.accd.edu (steve kolars)
Date: Thu Dec  2 07:58:53 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] How many Satlug members own or use a Zaurus?
In-Reply-To: <20041005151247.40033.qmail@web53405.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041005151247.40033.qmail@web53405.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41AF239E.10502@cis.sac.accd.edu>

Dale Offret Jr. wrote:

>I have been interested in purchasing a Zaurus, but
>have not due to financial strains.
>
>I noticed the US Zaurus development site was shutdown
>by Sharp last week. I also can't find any US outlets
>that carry the Zaurus.  I looked at Amazon and even PC
>Connection.  All say out of stock.
>
>I reviewed the Zaurus user group websites and found
>only a few owners in Central and North Central Texas
>in Dallas and Austin.
>
>Does anyone in the Satlug member list own or use a
>zaurus?  If so what for and how do you use it?
>  
>
I do not really use it like it is capable of being used.  I use it 
mostly for the calendar and keeping notes.

>I was intriged by the Cringly article, not so much
>about TVR and free cable, but the use of a Zaurus as a
>SIP client for Vonage that could be used at Home,
>Work, or any wifi spot Or use his cellular CF card
>with broadband access to connect to Vonage.
>
>That's cool!
>
>I wouldn't mind getting rid of my work computer, home
>computer, and laptop for 1 device and just have a few
>monitors at each location.  The CF-XGA adapter from
>IO-Data is only $175.
>
>(I wish I had one.)
>
>Dale Offret Jr.
>maquaro at yahoo dot com
>
>
>		
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>_______________________________________________
>Satlug mailing list
>Satlug@satlug.org
>http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
>
>
>  
>

From scs at worldlinkisp.com  Thu Dec  2 09:50:50 2004
From: scs at worldlinkisp.com (Louis Warnholtz)
Date: Thu Dec  2 09:32:49 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] How many Satlug members own or use a Zaurus?
In-Reply-To: <41AF239E.10502@cis.sac.accd.edu>
References: <20041005151247.40033.qmail@web53405.mail.yahoo.com>
 <41AF239E.10502@cis.sac.accd.edu>
Message-ID: <200412020950500890.007F4C7D@mail.worldlinkisp.com>

There are several members with and using them (me too), one member in particular (Vinny) has done a lot with his, see his web page  ( www dot vinny dot us / zaurus ) .

A Google search will show you several European sites supporting the Zaurus and download applications.

HTH

Lou

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 12/2/04 at 8:15 AM steve kolars wrote:

>Dale Offret Jr. wrote:
>
>>I have been interested in purchasing a Zaurus, but
<<<<<  snip  >>>>>
>>I reviewed the Zaurus user group websites and found
>>only a few owners in Central and North Central Texas
>>in Dallas and Austin.
>>
>>Does anyone in the Satlug member list own or use a
>>zaurus?  If so what for and how do you use it?
<<<< snip >>>>>>
>>(I wish I had one.)
>>
>>Dale Offret Jr.
>>maquaro at yahoo dot com


From zip at liberto.org  Thu Dec  2 14:03:14 2004
From: zip at liberto.org (Andrew Hodel)
Date: Thu Dec  2 13:45:23 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] serial servos or actuators
In-Reply-To: <79ec289f0412010642500f9fee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <79ec289f0411301436fa46bdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<41ACF921.1000504@syn-recon.net> <41ACFCAC.3030203@liberto.org>
	<79ec289f0412010642500f9fee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41AF7502.3080409@liberto.org>

You might want to check this out:

http://www.robotstore.com/catalog/display.asp?pid=93
http://www.robotstore.com/download/3-448minissc.pdf


Driven via a serial port, simple commands, 8 outputs (serial 3rd wire 
ttl talk)



Andrew


Jeremy Mann wrote:

>Thanks for the tip Andrew. It seems thoroughout all these posts, the
>parallel port seems to be the easiest. Now to fine tune my building
>skills.
>
>
>
>On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:05:16 -0600, Andrew Hodel <zip@liberto.org> wrote:
>  
>
>>Depending on how accurate you need to be, you could easily do this with
>>the parallel port and a DAC or pnp/npn's.  Either control 2 servos with
>>4 positions each, or 1 with 8, or use a multiplexer and a more complex
>>software program to have 255 or so diff outputs.
>>
>>Doing it with a serial port would require an interpreter on the servo,
>>although it would allow you to do much more, I would look at boards w/
>>analog/digital io, that you control via serial.
>>
>>You could also do it with a cpld (Xilinx) dev board, which has
>>analog/digital io, but that would be quite complicated, relative to the
>>other paths.
>>
>>
>>Andrew
>>
>>
>>
>>pandemic@syn-recon.net wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Jeremy Mann wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>I'm curious if any knows of any pan and tilt servos/actuators that I
>>>>can control through a serial interface. My intention is to place my
>>>>network camera on a device which I can control pan and tilt in a web
>>>>interface.
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Ha! I was just fixing to post the same question! But my project is
>>>leaning more toward a robot and two battery powered AirSoft Guns (or
>>>maybe one paint ball gun).  Either way id be interested to know also.
>>>
>>>Florian
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Satlug mailing list
>>>Satlug@satlug.org
>>>http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Satlug mailing list
>>Satlug@satlug.org
>>http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>

From zip at liberto.org  Thu Dec  2 14:06:36 2004
From: zip at liberto.org (Andrew Hodel)
Date: Thu Dec  2 13:48:35 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] serial servos or actuators
In-Reply-To: <41AF7502.3080409@liberto.org>
References: <79ec289f0411301436fa46bdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<41ACF921.1000504@syn-recon.net> <41ACFCAC.3030203@liberto.org>
	<79ec289f0412010642500f9fee@mail.gmail.com> <41AF7502.3080409@liberto.org>
Message-ID: <41AF75CC.9090801@liberto.org>

This too:

http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=28023


Andrew

Andrew Hodel wrote:

> You might want to check this out:
>
> http://www.robotstore.com/catalog/display.asp?pid=93
> http://www.robotstore.com/download/3-448minissc.pdf
>
>
> Driven via a serial port, simple commands, 8 outputs (serial 3rd wire 
> ttl talk)
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
> Jeremy Mann wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the tip Andrew. It seems thoroughout all these posts, the
>> parallel port seems to be the easiest. Now to fine tune my building
>> skills.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:05:16 -0600, Andrew Hodel <zip@liberto.org> 
>> wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> Depending on how accurate you need to be, you could easily do this with
>>> the parallel port and a DAC or pnp/npn's.  Either control 2 servos with
>>> 4 positions each, or 1 with 8, or use a multiplexer and a more complex
>>> software program to have 255 or so diff outputs.
>>>
>>> Doing it with a serial port would require an interpreter on the servo,
>>> although it would allow you to do much more, I would look at boards w/
>>> analog/digital io, that you control via serial.
>>>
>>> You could also do it with a cpld (Xilinx) dev board, which has
>>> analog/digital io, but that would be quite complicated, relative to the
>>> other paths.
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> pandemic@syn-recon.net wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>> Jeremy Mann wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>> I'm curious if any knows of any pan and tilt servos/actuators that I
>>>>> can control through a serial interface. My intention is to place my
>>>>> network camera on a device which I can control pan and tilt in a web
>>>>> interface.
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>>> Ha! I was just fixing to post the same question! But my project is
>>>> leaning more toward a robot and two battery powered AirSoft Guns (or
>>>> maybe one paint ball gun).  Either way id be interested to know also.
>>>>
>>>> Florian
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Satlug mailing list
>>>> Satlug@satlug.org
>>>> http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Satlug mailing list
>>> Satlug@satlug.org
>>> http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
>>>
>>>   
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Satlug mailing list
> Satlug@satlug.org
> http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
>

From ruben50 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  2 15:26:30 2004
From: ruben50 at gmail.com (Ruben G. Villanueva)
Date: Thu Dec  2 15:08:35 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] X.org slowness
Message-ID: <3dfab6340412021326286af4d7@mail.gmail.com>

Why would my X session as a user be slower and X as root? THis happend
after i updated from FC2 to FC3.

Ruben
From jeremymann at gmail.com  Thu Dec  2 16:14:23 2004
From: jeremymann at gmail.com (Jeremy Mann)
Date: Thu Dec  2 15:56:27 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] X.org slowness
In-Reply-To: <3dfab6340412021326286af4d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3dfab6340412021326286af4d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <79ec289f041202141453dd2c4c@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe your user doesn't have permissions to use the DRI device?

See if you have this in your configuration file:

Section "DRI"
        Mode    0666
EndSection


On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 15:26:30 -0600, Ruben G. Villanueva
<ruben50@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why would my X session as a user be slower and X as root? THis happend
> after i updated from FC2 to FC3.
> 
> Ruben
> _______________________________________________
> Satlug mailing list
> Satlug@satlug.org
> http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
> 


-- 
Jeremy
From chuck at tetlow.net  Thu Dec  2 17:42:23 2004
From: chuck at tetlow.net (Chuck)
Date: Thu Dec  2 17:24:23 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Awwwww, poor guys fighting off those big bad hackers...
Message-ID: <1102030944.14699.700.camel@laptop>

SCO Web site hack mocks company's legal claims

Malicious hackers have compromised The SCO Group's Web page 
twice in as many days, posting messages that appear to mock the 
company's claims to own parts of the Linux operating system. IDG 
News Service, 11/29/04. 
<http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2004/1129scowebs.html?nl> 





From paulmacejewski at gmail.com  Thu Dec  2 18:36:26 2004
From: paulmacejewski at gmail.com (Paul Macejewski)
Date: Thu Dec  2 18:18:28 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Awwwww, poor guys fighting off those big bad hackers...
In-Reply-To: <1102030944.14699.700.camel@laptop>
References: <1102030944.14699.700.camel@laptop>
Message-ID: <8d3555e404120216362800d508@mail.gmail.com>

While I generally don't condone hacking this is just funny.


On 02 Dec 2004 17:42:23 -0600, Chuck <chuck@tetlow.net> wrote:
> SCO Web site hack mocks company's legal claims
> 
> Malicious hackers have compromised The SCO Group's Web page
> twice in as many days, posting messages that appear to mock the
> company's claims to own parts of the Linux operating system. IDG
> News Service, 11/29/04.
> <http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2004/1129scowebs.html?nl>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Satlug mailing list
> Satlug@satlug.org
> http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
> 


-- 
Paul Macejewski
President of Gobias Industries
paulmacejewski@gmail.com
From paulmacejewski at gmail.com  Thu Dec  2 18:56:35 2004
From: paulmacejewski at gmail.com (Paul Macejewski)
Date: Thu Dec  2 18:38:37 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Awwwww, poor guys fighting off those big bad hackers...
In-Reply-To: <1102035074.14699.705.camel@laptop>
References: <1102030944.14699.700.camel@laptop>
	 <8d3555e404120216362800d508@mail.gmail.com>
	 <1102035074.14699.705.camel@laptop>
Message-ID: <8d3555e4041202165628f6f990@mail.gmail.com>

All of those lawyer types use Macs. "Oh look at us, we're UNIX
masters!" (Personal experience.)


On 02 Dec 2004 18:51:14 -0600, Chuck <chuck@tetlow.net> wrote:
> Oh, of course.  I don't condone hacking either.  But this is JUST what
> those lawyers deserve!  After all, they're trying to kill the very
> software that made that company in the first place (Caldera) by
> extortion and intimidation.
> 
> And have you thought of this aspect -- if that company had even one
> decent Linux/Unix person left in it, do you think their webserver would
> be hacked -- even once let alone twice in two days.  NO!  Its just a
> group of scumbag lawyers left living off handouts from MS and scheming
> how to extort more money from others.
> 
> So again -- its just what they deserve!  It'll teach them to keep some
> good Linux/Unix people next time they start disassembling a good
> company!
> 
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2004-12-02 at 18:36, Paul Macejewski wrote:
> > While I generally don't condone hacking this is just funny.
> >
> >
> > On 02 Dec 2004 17:42:23 -0600, Chuck <chuck@tetlow.net> wrote:
> > > SCO Web site hack mocks company's legal claims
> > >
> > > Malicious hackers have compromised The SCO Group's Web page
> > > twice in as many days, posting messages that appear to mock the
> > > company's claims to own parts of the Linux operating system. IDG
> > > News Service, 11/29/04.
> > > <http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2004/1129scowebs.html?nl>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Satlug mailing list
> > > Satlug@satlug.org
> > > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paul Macejewski
> > President of Gobias Industries
> > paulmacejewski@gmail.com
> > _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> > Satlug mailing list
> > Satlug@satlug.org
> > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
> 
> 


-- 
Paul Macejewski
President of Gobias Industries
paulmacejewski@gmail.com
From tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org  Fri Dec  3 01:19:06 2004
From: tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org (Tom Weeks)
Date: Fri Dec  3 01:01:19 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] X.org slowness
In-Reply-To: <3dfab6340412021326286af4d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3dfab6340412021326286af4d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200412030119.06581.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org>

On Thursday 02 December 2004 03:26 pm, Ruben G. Villanueva wrote:
> Why would my X session as a user be slower and X as root? THis happend
> after i updated from FC2 to FC3.

Because the dark side is seductive.. and it's path broad.

Tweeks
From ruben50 at gmail.com  Fri Dec  3 10:50:33 2004
From: ruben50 at gmail.com (Ruben G. Villanueva)
Date: Fri Dec  3 10:32:36 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] X.org slowness
In-Reply-To: <200412030119.06581.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org>
References: <3dfab6340412021326286af4d7@mail.gmail.com>
	 <200412030119.06581.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org>
Message-ID: <3dfab63404120308501234d899@mail.gmail.com>

Well, the DRI was already set up that way. Then I started to look at
the differences between the two. It looked as thouth my .kde and
.kderc files wre still set up for KDE 3.2 instead of 3.3. I rm -rf'd
them shut down my current session and $startx'd again and now it's
flowing faster now. I just need to get a WM that not so phat. I have
Blackbox installed, but i have to go through KDM to start it. Do you
guys know of an esier way.

BTW
I got Blackbox through FreshRPMs yum program.
-- 
Ruben G. Villanueva
From ray at admindbsys.com  Fri Dec  3 19:33:12 2004
From: ray at admindbsys.com (Richard York)
Date: Fri Dec  3 13:17:49 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] What's a d00d?
Message-ID: <20041203193312.82978.qmail@wm0>

Mary,

d00d is a post-modern word based on the more popularly known "zeroid" 
meaning an old IBM glasshouse priest that had his/her exxagerated 
sense of self-importance crushed by the popular DOS revolt of the 
1990's and have henceforth pretended to have a viable organizational 
front whereas they have actually sought refuge by hiding in generic 
Linux mailing lists and proclaiming Linux as the NEW world order.

Yes they have boobies (because they are old and have brain-dead jobs 
that allow them lots of time to construct massive sophist emails, 
become massively obese, and smell bad.

Have you ever smelled one of those "Computer Blasts?"

No I am not one  :)

Hail Linux (The new improved DOS)!


----

Thanks,

Richard


If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the 
computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost 100 USD, get one million 
miles to the gallon, and explode once a year, killing everybody 
inside.


Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:02:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Mary Yatti <yatinhat@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [SATLUG] SATLUG LINUX COURSE (with Free beer)
To: satlug@satlug.org
Message-ID: <20041201040242.55553.qmail@web50109.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Date: 30 Nov 2004 02:14:58 -0000
From: "Richard York" <ray@admindbsys.com>
Subject: [SATLUG] SATLUG LINUX COURSE (with Free beer)

Richard,

What's a d00d?	Or a d00ds?  Are you one?  Does it
have boobies?

Mary

2. As to the overwhelming membership that SATLUG is claimed to have.. 
d00ds, I have been to the last two meetings and there weren't 15 
people (if that) there including myself.

-- 


From ray at admindbsys.com  Fri Dec  3 21:04:14 2004
From: ray at admindbsys.com (Richard York)
Date: Fri Dec  3 14:46:10 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Did I ask for hot apple pie with that?
Message-ID: <20041203210414.25410.qmail@wm0>

I received this from REDHAT today and thought I'd share:

"Date : Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:18:46 -0000 
>From : "Red Hat" <redhat@info.redhat.com> 
Reply To : "Red Hat" <support-
bz991t9a94ddcqbe55mwvb784yd2xq@info.redhat.com> 
To : ray@admindbsys.com 
Subject : UNIX to Linux Migration Whitepaper and TiVo Training Offer 
 

Dear Colleague,

Are you frustrated with the price/performance of proprietary UNIX
solutions? Are you seeking to take advantage of the multi-vendor,
low-cost, high performance environment provided by Intel's x86 
hardware and Red Hat Enterprise Linux? By migrating to Red Hat 
Enterprise Linux, you can deliver reliable mission critical computing 
environments using lower cost Intel-based hardware, while increasing 
the performance of your IT infrastructure."



I'm aware that Linux is the new improved DOS (or so it's alleged.) 
But Linux or Unix are both Bogus offerings in the big picture.

Back in the PC revolution of the early 1990's I recall with 
excitement how much fun it was learning a "Computer Operating 
System." 

Up until that point the only people who got to play with computers 
were a closed clique known as the "IBM Priesthood." It was virtually 
impossible to get anything done with those guys in charge, because 
what they had was jargon to slip out of their responsibilities and 
the inability to respond in a timely manner to any request issued 
from any level less than a VP.

The kewlness of the PC revolution was that DOS people shared 
knowledge. It was fun. people would sit around and play on their 
little pc's and took delight in helping each other learn. It was also 
wonderful to make the priesthood - IRRELEVANT.

Everyone knew someone that understood DOS and would help them for 
free. It was a real community, or so it felt. The only payment that 
seemed to be required was "Yer a 'puter genius!!" As one of my 
college instructors said in 1988 "In the land of the Blind the one-
eyed Jack is King."

Then came the money. Overnight almost everyone who understood a DOS 
prompt became a "consultant" and had a great time hosing corporate 
for BIG BUX to do silly things like NT or email rollouts, and a good 
time was had by all. Then came the millenial crash. The layoffs, and 
finally the awareness by MGMT that computer was not the money-making 
messiah they had hoped. and that Computer did not increase 
productivity or profits. poo!

And the consultants got fired, and most of the IT staff, and 
corporate reduced the monetary hosing.

In the meantime the Old irrelevantized priesthood went down for the 
count. Knocked out. It was hard for so many that had so long demanded 
worship and actually received it. Muahahahah, but after DOS the 
emperor (and the priesthood) had no clothes and were ousted. Now they 
attempt to use Linux to regain there golden age.

Why will Linux never succeed as well as DOS or windows?

There were 3 choices available in the early 1990's. Unix, DOS, MAC.

MAC's cost a lot and were the same "toys" as pc's.

UNIX was available and really cost a lot and required high-dollar 
equipment. Plus there wasn't any UNIX community for the PUBLIC to 
learn from cheap.

The genius of the intel/windows solution is that it removed the 
barriers to entry for the average person. The hardware was cheap, the 
software was cheap, and training was free or very cheap.

That's the rub with Linux. Even now the new Solaris UNIX OS is FREE! 
but so what! The cost isn't in the hardware or software it's in the 
learning, and there are almost no real opportunities for learning 
UNIX/Linux without spending a lot of money. That's why the "LINUX IS 
THE MESSIAH" movement will fail - it's a nerd thing, and a GREEDY 
nerd thing at that.

The microsoft consultants had the good sense to wait until after the 
revolution was a done deal before they started the monetary hose of 
corporate. That's because it was basically a Marketing phenomena. 
Linux is a nerd phenomena and radically misses the marketing point. 
The nerds think because they give away the software that that's all 
there is too it. Unix and Linux may be the superior OS's - but 
BETAMAX was also the superior format. Cost is everything and Linux 
just costs too much in the aggregate - plus the world would have to 
return to the days of having to kowtow to the evil Priesthood (You 
know who you are and you still sux!)

I hear the REDHAT kernel is so patched that it's more rickety than 
win98. I hear they control their educationbal certification classes 
with an iron fist and charge $1,000's of dollars and only have a 30% 
passrate for their courses.

Is that the way the Linux is supposed to crush Windows?

If it wasn't for the Apache webserver - Linux would already be an 
antiquity, like the commodore OS. Like all other techno obscurities 
only the nerds will play with it.


Thanks,

Richard York

-- 
If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the 
computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost 100 USD, get one million 
miles to the gallon, and explode once a year, killing everybody 
inside.

From gwillden at gmail.com  Fri Dec  3 15:19:05 2004
From: gwillden at gmail.com (Greg Willden)
Date: Fri Dec  3 15:01:10 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Did I ask for hot apple pie with that?
In-Reply-To: <20041203210414.25410.qmail@wm0>
References: <20041203210414.25410.qmail@wm0>
Message-ID: <345e55a50412031319448b9a95@mail.gmail.com>

Could you please designate where the forwarded email ends and where
your comments begin?

I'm a little confused.  Is this SPAM or something?
Thanks
Greg


On 3 Dec 2004 21:04:14 -0000, Richard York <ray@admindbsys.com> wrote:
> I received this from REDHAT today and thought I'd share:
> 
> "Date : Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:18:46 -0000
> >From : "Red Hat" <redhat@info.redhat.com>
> Reply To : "Red Hat" <support-
> bz991t9a94ddcqbe55mwvb784yd2xq@info.redhat.com>
> To : ray@admindbsys.com
> Subject : UNIX to Linux Migration Whitepaper and TiVo Training Offer
> 
> Dear Colleague,
> 

<snipped>
From chuck at tetlow.net  Fri Dec  3 15:38:01 2004
From: chuck at tetlow.net (Chuck)
Date: Fri Dec  3 15:20:00 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Did I ask for hot apple pie with that?
In-Reply-To: <20041203210414.25410.qmail@wm0>
References: <20041203210414.25410.qmail@wm0>
Message-ID: <1102109882.17893.727.camel@laptop>

On Fri, 2004-12-03 at 15:04, Richard York wrote:

> I hear the REDHAT kernel is so patched that it's more rickety than 
> win98. 

Richard,

I read your whole post and quite honestly, I don't know where you are
getting your information from.  But all the first part aside, lets
address a few of your statements:
The "LINUX" kernel is still more stable than anything MS has ever turned
out.  Oh, sure -- MS would love to spread FUD saying otherwise.  But if
you get the straight story from people who have tested and know -- Linux
wins out every time.

I hear they control their educationbal certification classes 
> with an iron fist and charge $1,000's of dollars and only have a 30% 
> passrate for their courses.

Your right!  Redhat does control their certifications tightly and do
have only about a 35% pass rate.  And I agree with their methodology!

Its the only way to insure their certifications and system don't turn
into another Micro$oft "Papermill" system.

MS did NOT control their certification system, allowed any idiot who
could find the on/off button to teach classes, allowed those idiots to
teach the test instead of teaching the material, and their certification
system is acknowledged as the biggest joke in the industry.

On the other hand, Redhat modeled their certification system after
Cisco's CCIE program which is also tightly controlled, cost enough to
exclude the wallpaper seekers, and also has a 30-35% pass rate.  And
Cisco's certification system (especially the CCIE portion) is widely
acknowledged as the best in the IT world.

So, why should Redhat follow the failed MS lead when they could model
and do it the same way as Cisco???


> Is that the way the Linux is supposed to crush Windows?

Will it 'crush' Winblows, won't -- who cares.  The people who know the
difference and those who are open-minded to looking at those differences
will go to Linux.  And since market share seems to keep moving toward
Linux -- I guess its working!  (Market share as found by truly
independent studies -- not the MS funded studies)

 
> If it wasn't for the Apache webserver - Linux would already be an 
> antiquity, like the commodore OS. Like all other techno obscurities 
> only the nerds will play with it.

And thats just a ridiculous statement.  Since Linux was around and
spreading for years before Apache came out -- that doesn't make any
sense at all.  And what shoots that statement right in the foot is the
fact that there is a version of Apache for Winblows -- yet market share
keeps moving toward Linux/Apache.  So, explain that one!!!


Chuck





From jennifervg at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  3 14:11:42 2004
From: jennifervg at yahoo.com (Jennifer Van Gorkom)
Date: Fri Dec  3 15:53:39 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Did I ask for hot apple pie with that?
In-Reply-To: <20041203210414.25410.qmail@wm0>
Message-ID: <20041203221142.37853.qmail@web10804.mail.yahoo.com>

Richard after reading this little misinfomation filled
rant I have got to ask..

Do you also believe (like some I work with) that the
only reason that there are more exploits for Microsoft
Windows is because it has a larger install base?

RedHat's exams maybe expensive but I have never met a
holder of one of their certificates who could not do
the minimum required for the certification.  I know
many who have Microsoft certifications who can not map
to a network printer.

JenniferVG
--- Richard York <ray@admindbsys.com> wrote:

> I received this from REDHAT today and thought I'd
> share:
> 
> "Date : Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:18:46 -0000 
> >From : "Red Hat" <redhat@info.redhat.com> 
> Reply To : "Red Hat" <support-
> bz991t9a94ddcqbe55mwvb784yd2xq@info.redhat.com> 
> To : ray@admindbsys.com 
> Subject : UNIX to Linux Migration Whitepaper and
> TiVo Training Offer 
>  
> 
> Dear Colleague,
> 
> Are you frustrated with the price/performance of
> proprietary UNIX
> solutions? Are you seeking to take advantage of the
> multi-vendor,
> low-cost, high performance environment provided by
> Intel's x86 
> hardware and Red Hat Enterprise Linux? By migrating
> to Red Hat 
> Enterprise Linux, you can deliver reliable mission
> critical computing 
> environments using lower cost Intel-based hardware,
> while increasing 
> the performance of your IT infrastructure."
> 
> 
> 
> I'm aware that Linux is the new improved DOS (or so
> it's alleged.) 
> But Linux or Unix are both Bogus offerings in the
> big picture.
> 
> Back in the PC revolution of the early 1990's I
> recall with 
> excitement how much fun it was learning a "Computer
> Operating 
> System." 
> 
> Up until that point the only people who got to play
> with computers 
> were a closed clique known as the "IBM Priesthood."
> It was virtually 
> impossible to get anything done with those guys in
> charge, because 
> what they had was jargon to slip out of their
> responsibilities and 
> the inability to respond in a timely manner to any
> request issued 
> from any level less than a VP.
> 
> The kewlness of the PC revolution was that DOS
> people shared 
> knowledge. It was fun. people would sit around and
> play on their 
> little pc's and took delight in helping each other
> learn. It was also 
> wonderful to make the priesthood - IRRELEVANT.
> 
> Everyone knew someone that understood DOS and would
> help them for 
> free. It was a real community, or so it felt. The
> only payment that 
> seemed to be required was "Yer a 'puter genius!!" As
> one of my 
> college instructors said in 1988 "In the land of the
> Blind the one-
> eyed Jack is King."
> 
> Then came the money. Overnight almost everyone who
> understood a DOS 
> prompt became a "consultant" and had a great time
> hosing corporate 
> for BIG BUX to do silly things like NT or email
> rollouts, and a good 
> time was had by all. Then came the millenial crash.
> The layoffs, and 
> finally the awareness by MGMT that computer was not
> the money-making 
> messiah they had hoped. and that Computer did not
> increase 
> productivity or profits. poo!
> 
> And the consultants got fired, and most of the IT
> staff, and 
> corporate reduced the monetary hosing.
> 
> In the meantime the Old irrelevantized priesthood
> went down for the 
> count. Knocked out. It was hard for so many that had
> so long demanded 
> worship and actually received it. Muahahahah, but
> after DOS the 
> emperor (and the priesthood) had no clothes and were
> ousted. Now they 
> attempt to use Linux to regain there golden age.
> 
> Why will Linux never succeed as well as DOS or
> windows?
> 
> There were 3 choices available in the early 1990's.
> Unix, DOS, MAC.
> 
> MAC's cost a lot and were the same "toys" as pc's.
> 
> UNIX was available and really cost a lot and
> required high-dollar 
> equipment. Plus there wasn't any UNIX community for
> the PUBLIC to 
> learn from cheap.
> 
> The genius of the intel/windows solution is that it
> removed the 
> barriers to entry for the average person. The
> hardware was cheap, the 
> software was cheap, and training was free or very
> cheap.
> 
> That's the rub with Linux. Even now the new Solaris
> UNIX OS is FREE! 
> but so what! The cost isn't in the hardware or
> software it's in the 
> learning, and there are almost no real opportunities
> for learning 
> UNIX/Linux without spending a lot of money. That's
> why the "LINUX IS 
> THE MESSIAH" movement will fail - it's a nerd thing,
> and a GREEDY 
> nerd thing at that.
> 
> The microsoft consultants had the good sense to wait
> until after the 
> revolution was a done deal before they started the
> monetary hose of 
> corporate. That's because it was basically a
> Marketing phenomena. 
> Linux is a nerd phenomena and radically misses the
> marketing point. 
> The nerds think because they give away the software
> that that's all 
> there is too it. Unix and Linux may be the superior
> OS's - but 
> BETAMAX was also the superior format. Cost is
> everything and Linux 
> just costs too much in the aggregate - plus the
> world would have to 
> return to the days of having to kowtow to the evil
> Priesthood (You 
> know who you are and you still sux!)
> 
> I hear the REDHAT kernel is so patched that it's
> more rickety than 
> win98. I hear they control their educationbal
> certification classes 
> with an iron fist and charge $1,000's of dollars and
> only have a 30% 
> passrate for their courses.
> 
> Is that the way the Linux is supposed to crush
> Windows?
> 
> If it wasn't for the Apache webserver - Linux would
> already be an 
> antiquity, like the commodore OS. Like all other
> techno obscurities 
> only the nerds will play with it.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Richard York
> 
> -- 
> If the automobile had followed the same development
> cycle as the 
> computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost 100 USD,
> get one million 
> miles to the gallon, and explode once a year,
> killing everybody 
> inside.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Satlug mailing list
> Satlug@satlug.org
> http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
> 



		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. 
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
From info at satvid.com  Fri Dec  3 22:40:04 2004
From: info at satvid.com (Cthulhu Fhtagn)
Date: Fri Dec  3 16:22:04 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Did I ask for hot apple pie with that?
Message-ID: <20041203224004.66770.qmail@wm0>

Jennifer,

I suspect that the de-frocked IBM priesthood have used (or abused)
their "retriement" by becoming virus-writers and crackers and have 
chosen MS OS as their preferred target because MS is reponsible for 
the demise of their sacredeness. i.e. sour grapes.

Thank you for accusing me of disinformation - I understand the truth 
is an annoyance to any given fascist movement.

btw - as part of my alleged "misinformation" I wanted to add the 
other techno antiquity of OS/2 to those os's that are purely nerd 
phenom. 

MS wins because everyone knows how to use it. I switched to firefox 
because I liked the lack of exploits. Everyone including most 
Linux/Unix admin's use windows on the side. Does that make them 
hypocrites? or are they just practical?

What you seem to have completely missed is my emphasis on the 
positive results of the DOS revolution (wherein everyone helped 
everyone else learn the system) - that community is NOT happening 
with the nerd phenom of Linux and this marketing is being ignored 
Linux will never be mainstream. I've recieved several emails from the 
guru's of this generic Linux mailing list and most expect to have 
thier butts kissed before they would ever consider having SATLUG 
provide a Linux course. 

Are you one of those who foolishly believe that Linux is the great 
white hope and it's best to charge ahead with massive consulting and 
educational charges just because corporate wants to run a webserver 
on a free OS?

Thanks,

Richard York


On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 14:11:42 -0800 (PST), Jennifer Van Gorkom 
<jennifervg@yahoo.com> wrote :

> Richard after reading this little misinfomation filled
> rant I have got to ask..
> 
> Do you also believe (like some I work with) that the
> only reason that there are more exploits for Microsoft
> Windows is because it has a larger install base?
> 
> RedHat's exams maybe expensive but I have never met a
> holder of one of their certificates who could not do
> the minimum required for the certification.  I know
> many who have Microsoft certifications who can not map
> to a network printer.
> 
> JenniferVG
> --- Richard York <ray@admindbsys.com> wrote:
> 
> > I received this from REDHAT today and thought I'd
> > share:
> > 
> > "Date : Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:18:46 -0000 
> > >From : "Red Hat" <redhat@info.redhat.com> 
> > Reply To : "Red Hat" <support-
> > bz991t9a94ddcqbe55mwvb784yd2xq@info.redhat.com> 
> > To : ray@admindbsys.com 
> > Subject : UNIX to Linux Migration Whitepaper and
> > TiVo Training Offer 
> >  
> > 
> > Dear Colleague,
> > 
> > Are you frustrated with the price/performance of
> > proprietary UNIX
> > solutions? Are you seeking to take advantage of the
> > multi-vendor,
> > low-cost, high performance environment provided by
> > Intel's x86 
> > hardware and Red Hat Enterprise Linux? By migrating
> > to Red Hat 
> > Enterprise Linux, you can deliver reliable mission
> > critical computing 
> > environments using lower cost Intel-based hardware,
> > while increasing 
> > the performance of your IT infrastructure."
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I'm aware that Linux is the new improved DOS (or so
> > it's alleged.) 
> > But Linux or Unix are both Bogus offerings in the
> > big picture.
> > 
> > Back in the PC revolution of the early 1990's I
> > recall with 
> > excitement how much fun it was learning a "Computer
> > Operating 
> > System." 
> > 
> > Up until that point the only people who got to play
> > with computers 
> > were a closed clique known as the "IBM Priesthood."
> > It was virtually 
> > impossible to get anything done with those guys in
> > charge, because 
> > what they had was jargon to slip out of their
> > responsibilities and 
> > the inability to respond in a timely manner to any
> > request issued 
> > from any level less than a VP.
> > 
> > The kewlness of the PC revolution was that DOS
> > people shared 
> > knowledge. It was fun. people would sit around and
> > play on their 
> > little pc's and took delight in helping each other
> > learn. It was also 
> > wonderful to make the priesthood - IRRELEVANT.
> > 
> > Everyone knew someone that understood DOS and would
> > help them for 
> > free. It was a real community, or so it felt. The
> > only payment that 
> > seemed to be required was "Yer a 'puter genius!!" As
> > one of my 
> > college instructors said in 1988 "In the land of the
> > Blind the one-
> > eyed Jack is King."
> > 
> > Then came the money. Overnight almost everyone who
> > understood a DOS 
> > prompt became a "consultant" and had a great time
> > hosing corporate 
> > for BIG BUX to do silly things like NT or email
> > rollouts, and a good 
> > time was had by all. Then came the millenial crash.
> > The layoffs, and 
> > finally the awareness by MGMT that computer was not
> > the money-making 
> > messiah they had hoped. and that Computer did not
> > increase 
> > productivity or profits. poo!
> > 
> > And the consultants got fired, and most of the IT
> > staff, and 
> > corporate reduced the monetary hosing.
> > 
> > In the meantime the Old irrelevantized priesthood
> > went down for the 
> > count. Knocked out. It was hard for so many that had
> > so long demanded 
> > worship and actually received it. Muahahahah, but
> > after DOS the 
> > emperor (and the priesthood) had no clothes and were
> > ousted. Now they 
> > attempt to use Linux to regain there golden age.
> > 
> > Why will Linux never succeed as well as DOS or
> > windows?
> > 
> > There were 3 choices available in the early 1990's.
> > Unix, DOS, MAC.
> > 
> > MAC's cost a lot and were the same "toys" as pc's.
> > 
> > UNIX was available and really cost a lot and
> > required high-dollar 
> > equipment. Plus there wasn't any UNIX community for
> > the PUBLIC to 
> > learn from cheap.
> > 
> > The genius of the intel/windows solution is that it
> > removed the 
> > barriers to entry for the average person. The
> > hardware was cheap, the 
> > software was cheap, and training was free or very
> > cheap.
> > 
> > That's the rub with Linux. Even now the new Solaris
> > UNIX OS is FREE! 
> > but so what! The cost isn't in the hardware or
> > software it's in the 
> > learning, and there are almost no real opportunities
> > for learning 
> > UNIX/Linux without spending a lot of money. That's
> > why the "LINUX IS 
> > THE MESSIAH" movement will fail - it's a nerd thing,
> > and a GREEDY 
> > nerd thing at that.
> > 
> > The microsoft consultants had the good sense to wait
> > until after the 
> > revolution was a done deal before they started the
> > monetary hose of 
> > corporate. That's because it was basically a
> > Marketing phenomena. 
> > Linux is a nerd phenomena and radically misses the
> > marketing point. 
> > The nerds think because they give away the software
> > that that's all 
> > there is too it. Unix and Linux may be the superior
> > OS's - but 
> > BETAMAX was also the superior format. Cost is
> > everything and Linux 
> > just costs too much in the aggregate - plus the
> > world would have to 
> > return to the days of having to kowtow to the evil
> > Priesthood (You 
> > know who you are and you still sux!)
> > 
> > I hear the REDHAT kernel is so patched that it's
> > more rickety than 
> > win98. I hear they control their educationbal
> > certification classes 
> > with an iron fist and charge $1,000's of dollars and
> > only have a 30% 
> > passrate for their courses.
> > 
> > Is that the way the Linux is supposed to crush
> > Windows?
> > 
> > If it wasn't for the Apache webserver - Linux would
> > already be an 
> > antiquity, like the commodore OS. Like all other
> > techno obscurities 
> > only the nerds will play with it.
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Richard York
> > 
> > -- 
> > If the automobile had followed the same development
> > cycle as the 
> > computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost 100 USD,
> > get one million 
> > miles to the gallon, and explode once a year,
> > killing everybody 
> > inside.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Satlug mailing list
> > Satlug@satlug.org
> > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 		
> __________________________________ 
> Do you Yahoo!? 
> Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. 
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
> _______________________________________________
> Satlug mailing list
> Satlug@satlug.org
> http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
> 
> 
> 
From info at satvid.com  Fri Dec  3 22:43:58 2004
From: info at satvid.com (Cthulhu Fhtagn)
Date: Fri Dec  3 16:25:54 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Did I ask for hot apple pie with that?
Message-ID: <20041203224358.68189.qmail@wm0>

Chuck,

Glad to hear that you think Redhat is justified in massive 
overcharging for their courseware.

Unix was around a lot longer than Linux and where's it's market share?

I assume you are one of the greybeards that don't intend on building 
SATLUG by providing any ongoing courses to the public or your 
membership.

Yer a real inspiration :)

Thanks,

Richard York

On 03 Dec 2004 15:38:01 -0600, Chuck <chuck@tetlow.net> wrote :

> On Fri, 2004-12-03 at 15:04, Richard York wrote:
> 
> > I hear the REDHAT kernel is so patched that it's more rickety 
than 
> > win98. 
> 
> Richard,
> 
> I read your whole post and quite honestly, I don't know where you 
are
> getting your information from.  But all the first part aside, lets
> address a few of your statements:
> The "LINUX" kernel is still more stable than anything MS has ever 
turned
> out.  Oh, sure -- MS would love to spread FUD saying otherwise.  
But if
> you get the straight story from people who have tested and know -- 
Linux
> wins out every time.
> 
> I hear they control their educationbal certification classes 
> > with an iron fist and charge $1,000's of dollars and only have a 
30% 
> > passrate for their courses.
> 
> Your right!  Redhat does control their certifications tightly and do
> have only about a 35% pass rate.  And I agree with their 
methodology!
> 
> Its the only way to insure their certifications and system don't 
turn
> into another Micro$oft "Papermill" system.
> 
> MS did NOT control their certification system, allowed any idiot who
> could find the on/off button to teach classes, allowed those idiots 
to
> teach the test instead of teaching the material, and their 
certification
> system is acknowledged as the biggest joke in the industry.
> 
> On the other hand, Redhat modeled their certification system after
> Cisco's CCIE program which is also tightly controlled, cost enough 
to
> exclude the wallpaper seekers, and also has a 30-35% pass rate.  And
> Cisco's certification system (especially the CCIE portion) is widely
> acknowledged as the best in the IT world.
> 
> So, why should Redhat follow the failed MS lead when they could 
model
> and do it the same way as Cisco???
> 
> 
> > Is that the way the Linux is supposed to crush Windows?
> 
> Will it 'crush' Winblows, won't -- who cares.  The people who know 
the
> difference and those who are open-minded to looking at those 
differences
> will go to Linux.  And since market share seems to keep moving 
toward
> Linux -- I guess its working!  (Market share as found by truly
> independent studies -- not the MS funded studies)
> 
>  
> > If it wasn't for the Apache webserver - Linux would already be an 
> > antiquity, like the commodore OS. Like all other techno 
obscurities 
> > only the nerds will play with it.
> 
> And thats just a ridiculous statement.  Since Linux was around and
> spreading for years before Apache came out -- that doesn't make any
> sense at all.  And what shoots that statement right in the foot is 
the
> fact that there is a version of Apache for Winblows -- yet market 
share
> keeps moving toward Linux/Apache.  So, explain that one!!!
> 
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Satlug mailing list
> Satlug@satlug.org
> http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
> 
> 
> 
From info at satvid.com  Fri Dec  3 22:45:18 2004
From: info at satvid.com (Cthulhu Fhtagn)
Date: Fri Dec  3 16:27:14 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Did I ask for hot apple pie with that?
Message-ID: <20041203224518.68858.qmail@wm0>

greg,

note the quotation marks:

On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 15:19:05 -0600, Greg Willden <gwillden@gmail.com> 
wrote :

> Could you please designate where the forwarded email ends and where
> your comments begin?
> 
> I'm a little confused.  Is this SPAM or something?
> Thanks
> Greg
> 
> 
> On 3 Dec 2004 21:04:14 -0000, Richard York <ray@admindbsys.com> 
wrote:
> > I received this from REDHAT today and thought I'd share:
> > 

HERE

> > "Date : Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:18:46 -0000
> > >From : "Red Hat" <redhat@info.redhat.com>
> > Reply To : "Red Hat" <support-
> > bz991t9a94ddcqbe55mwvb784yd2xq@info.redhat.com>
> > To : ray@admindbsys.com
> > Subject : UNIX to Linux Migration Whitepaper and TiVo Training 
Offer
> > 
> > Dear Colleague,
> > 
> 
> <snipped>
> ______________________________________________
> Satlug mailing list
> Satlug@satlug.org
> http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
> 
> 
> 
From gwillden at gmail.com  Fri Dec  3 16:49:53 2004
From: gwillden at gmail.com (Greg Willden)
Date: Fri Dec  3 16:31:55 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Did I ask for hot apple pie with that?
In-Reply-To: <20041203224004.66770.qmail@wm0>
References: <20041203224004.66770.qmail@wm0>
Message-ID: <345e55a50412031449566929ee@mail.gmail.com>

On 3 Dec 2004 22:40:04 -0000, Cthulhu Fhtagn <info@satvid.com> wrote:
> What you seem to have completely missed is my emphasis on the
> positive results of the DOS revolution (wherein everyone helped
> everyone else learn the system) - that community is NOT happening
> with the nerd phenom of Linux and this marketing is being ignored
> Linux will never be mainstream. I've recieved several emails from the
> guru's of this generic Linux mailing list and most expect to have
> thier butts kissed before they would ever consider having SATLUG
> provide a Linux course.

So now you are using a different email address.  This is getting confusing.

Dude.  Who are you and where did you come from?

Linux is *the* place to find people helping people learn the OS.

This is the first time I've noticed anything from you and it really is
getting me annoyed.  You are coming across as a very arrogant
individual.

Generally when people are looking for help they are friendly and
approachable.  They don't swoop down on a mailing list with a giant
flamming Troll-Ball in their hands.  Where did you learn this
interesting approach to human relationships?

If you are looking for some help.  Then please ask questions.  I'd be
happy to answer them if I can and I know that a lot of other people
out there are too.
Regards,
Greg
From jennifervg at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  3 15:06:37 2004
From: jennifervg at yahoo.com (Jennifer Van Gorkom)
Date: Fri Dec  3 16:48:34 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Did I ask for hot apple pie with that?
In-Reply-To: <20041203224004.66770.qmail@wm0>
Message-ID: <20041203230637.94450.qmail@web10801.mail.yahoo.com>

NO I did not miss your other points.  I just chose to
respond to one part of that mess.

As to the Linux course.  I have taught Linux both
professional (New Horizons, the SAIR series) and
privately (one on one tutoring, as well as as part of
the course that was taught to Alamo PC.

Currently I am helping two other people study for the
RHCE with out charging them a penny. 

I have been told by several that when I charge for
what I do I usually undercharge.

So sorry try that one elsewhere

Jennifer

--- Cthulhu Fhtagn <info@satvid.com> wrote:

> Jennifer,
> 
> I suspect that the de-frocked IBM priesthood have
> used (or abused)
> their "retriement" by becoming virus-writers and
> crackers and have 
> chosen MS OS as their preferred target because MS is
> reponsible for 
> the demise of their sacredeness. i.e. sour grapes.
> 
> Thank you for accusing me of disinformation - I
> understand the truth 
> is an annoyance to any given fascist movement.
> 
> btw - as part of my alleged "misinformation" I
> wanted to add the 
> other techno antiquity of OS/2 to those os's that
> are purely nerd 
> phenom. 
> 
> MS wins because everyone knows how to use it. I
> switched to firefox 
> because I liked the lack of exploits. Everyone
> including most 
> Linux/Unix admin's use windows on the side. Does
> that make them 
> hypocrites? or are they just practical?
> 
> What you seem to have completely missed is my
> emphasis on the 
> positive results of the DOS revolution (wherein
> everyone helped 
> everyone else learn the system) - that community is
> NOT happening 
> with the nerd phenom of Linux and this marketing is
> being ignored 
> Linux will never be mainstream. I've recieved
> several emails from the 
> guru's of this generic Linux mailing list and most
> expect to have 
> thier butts kissed before they would ever consider
> having SATLUG 
> provide a Linux course. 
> 
> Are you one of those who foolishly believe that
> Linux is the great 
> white hope and it's best to charge ahead with
> massive consulting and 
> educational charges just because corporate wants to
> run a webserver 
> on a free OS?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Richard York
> 
> 
> On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 14:11:42 -0800 (PST), Jennifer
> Van Gorkom 
> <jennifervg@yahoo.com> wrote :
> 
> > Richard after reading this little misinfomation
> filled
> > rant I have got to ask..
> > 
> > Do you also believe (like some I work with) that
> the
> > only reason that there are more exploits for
> Microsoft
> > Windows is because it has a larger install base?
> > 
> > RedHat's exams maybe expensive but I have never
> met a
> > holder of one of their certificates who could not
> do
> > the minimum required for the certification.  I
> know
> > many who have Microsoft certifications who can not
> map
> > to a network printer.
> > 
> > JenniferVG
> > --- Richard York <ray@admindbsys.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > I received this from REDHAT today and thought
> I'd
> > > share:
> > > 
> > > "Date : Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:18:46 -0000 
> > > >From : "Red Hat" <redhat@info.redhat.com> 
> > > Reply To : "Red Hat" <support-
> > > bz991t9a94ddcqbe55mwvb784yd2xq@info.redhat.com> 
> > > To : ray@admindbsys.com 
> > > Subject : UNIX to Linux Migration Whitepaper and
> > > TiVo Training Offer 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Dear Colleague,
> > > 
> > > Are you frustrated with the price/performance of
> > > proprietary UNIX
> > > solutions? Are you seeking to take advantage of
> the
> > > multi-vendor,
> > > low-cost, high performance environment provided
> by
> > > Intel's x86 
> > > hardware and Red Hat Enterprise Linux? By
> migrating
> > > to Red Hat 
> > > Enterprise Linux, you can deliver reliable
> mission
> > > critical computing 
> > > environments using lower cost Intel-based
> hardware,
> > > while increasing 
> > > the performance of your IT infrastructure."
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I'm aware that Linux is the new improved DOS (or
> so
> > > it's alleged.) 
> > > But Linux or Unix are both Bogus offerings in
> the
> > > big picture.
> > > 
> > > Back in the PC revolution of the early 1990's I
> > > recall with 
> > > excitement how much fun it was learning a
> "Computer
> > > Operating 
> > > System." 
> > > 
> > > Up until that point the only people who got to
> play
> > > with computers 
> > > were a closed clique known as the "IBM
> Priesthood."
> > > It was virtually 
> > > impossible to get anything done with those guys
> in
> > > charge, because 
> > > what they had was jargon to slip out of their
> > > responsibilities and 
> > > the inability to respond in a timely manner to
> any
> > > request issued 
> > > from any level less than a VP.
> > > 
> > > The kewlness of the PC revolution was that DOS
> > > people shared 
> > > knowledge. It was fun. people would sit around
> and
> > > play on their 
> > > little pc's and took delight in helping each
> other
> > > learn. It was also 
> > > wonderful to make the priesthood - IRRELEVANT.
> > > 
> > > Everyone knew someone that understood DOS and
> would
> > > help them for 
> > > free. It was a real community, or so it felt.
> The
> > > only payment that 
> > > seemed to be required was "Yer a 'puter
> genius!!" As
> > > one of my 
> > > college instructors said in 1988 "In the land of
> the
> > > Blind the one-
> > > eyed Jack is King."
> > > 
> > > Then came the money. Overnight almost everyone
> who
> > > understood a DOS 
> > > prompt became a "consultant" and had a great
> time
> > > hosing corporate 
> > > for BIG BUX to do silly things like NT or email
> > > rollouts, and a good 
> > > time was had by all. Then came the millenial
> crash.
> > > The layoffs, and 
> > > finally the awareness by MGMT that computer was
> not
> > > the money-making 
> > > messiah they had hoped. and that Computer did
> not
> > > increase 
> > > productivity or profits. poo!
> > > 
> > > And the consultants got fired, and most of the
> IT
> > > staff, and 
> > > corporate reduced the monetary hosing.
> > > 
> > > In the meantime the Old irrelevantized
> priesthood
> > > went down for the 
> > > count. Knocked out. It was hard for so many that
> had
> > > so long demanded 
> > > worship and actually received it. Muahahahah,
> but
> > > after DOS the 
> > > emperor (and the priesthood) had no clothes and
> were
> > > ousted. Now they 
> > > attempt to use Linux to regain there golden age.
> > > 
> > > Why will Linux never succeed as well as DOS or
> > > windows?
> > > 
> > > There were 3 choices available in the early
> 1990's.
> > > Unix, DOS, MAC.
> > > 
> > > MAC's cost a lot and were the same "toys" as
> pc's.
> > > 
> > > UNIX was available and really cost a lot and
> > > required high-dollar 
> > > equipment. Plus there wasn't any UNIX community
> for
> > > the PUBLIC to 
> > > learn from cheap.
> > > 
> > > The genius of the intel/windows solution is that
> it
> > > removed the 
> > > barriers to entry for the average person. The
> > > hardware was cheap, the 
> > > software was cheap, and training was free or
> very
> > > cheap.
> > > 
> > > That's the rub with Linux. Even now the new
> Solaris
> > > UNIX OS is FREE! 
> > > but so what! The cost isn't in the hardware or
> > > software it's in the 
> > > learning, and there are almost no real
> opportunities
> > > for learning 
> > > UNIX/Linux without spending a lot of money.
> That's
> > > why the "LINUX IS 
> > > THE MESSIAH" movement will fail - it's a nerd
> thing,
> > > and a GREEDY 
> > > nerd thing at that.
> > > 
> > > The microsoft consultants had the good sense to
> wait
> > > until after the 
> > > revolution was a done deal before they started
> the
> > > monetary hose of 
> > > corporate. That's because it was basically a
> > > Marketing phenomena. 
> > > Linux is a nerd phenomena and radically misses
> the
> > > marketing point. 
> > > The nerds think because they give away the
> software
> > > that that's all 
> > > there is too it. Unix and Linux may be the
> superior
> > > OS's - but 
> > > BETAMAX was also the superior format. Cost is
> > > everything and Linux 
> > > just costs too much in the aggregate - plus the
> > > world would have to 
> > > return to the days of having to kowtow to the
> evil
> > > Priesthood (You 
> > > know who you are and you still sux!)
> > > 
> > > I hear the REDHAT kernel is so patched that it's
> > > more rickety than 
> > > win98. I hear they control their educationbal
> > > certification classes 
> > > with an iron fist and charge $1,000's of dollars
> and
> > > only have a 30% 
> > > passrate for their courses.
> > > 
> > > Is that the way the Linux is supposed to crush
> > > Windows?
> > > 
> > > If it wasn't for the Apache webserver - Linux
> would
> > > already be an 
> > > antiquity, like the commodore OS. Like all other
> > > techno obscurities 
> > > only the nerds will play with it.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > 
> > > Richard York
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > If the automobile had followed the same
> development
> > > cycle as the 
> > > computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost 100
> USD,
> > > get one million 
> > > miles to the gallon, and explode once a year,
> > > killing everybody 
> > > inside.
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Satlug mailing list
> > > Satlug@satlug.org
> > > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 		
> > __________________________________ 
> > Do you Yahoo!? 
> > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail
> SpamGuard. 
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Satlug mailing list
> > Satlug@satlug.org
> > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
> > 
> > 
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> Satlug mailing list
> Satlug@satlug.org
> http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
> 


		
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From chuck at tetlow.net  Fri Dec  3 17:22:12 2004
From: chuck at tetlow.net (Chuck)
Date: Fri Dec  3 17:04:11 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Did I ask for hot apple pie with that?
In-Reply-To: <20041203224358.68189.qmail@wm0>
References: <20041203224358.68189.qmail@wm0>
Message-ID: <1102116133.14699.762.camel@laptop>

> 
> I assume you are one of the greybeards that don't intend on building 
> SATLUG by providing any ongoing courses to the public or your 
> membership.

As a matter of a fact Richard -- YOUR DAMN RIGHT!  I AM ONE!

I've sick and tired of some people that think MY time is free for their
demand ANYTIME.  I and a group of other SATLUG volunteers spent WEEKS
putting together that training class for Alamo PC.  And what did it get
us?  NOTHING!!!

We didn't get members, we didn't get the implied partnerships at events,
we didn't get the promised facilities to use for our own training at
later dates, it didn't get us the equipment usage promised,,, hell -- it
BARELY got us a thank you as they kicked us out the door.

I'm not stupid enough to do the same thing over and over and expect
different results.  I learned from the first time and I for one, am just
not willing to part with my valuable time to try with Alamo PC again.

As for other training classes -- we have put on training classes in
conjunction with SAC.  But we just haven't had sufficient
interest/demand to put on dedicated classes inside SATLUG.  Even the
free classes we put on with SAC were sparsely attended.  

Demand has been low that is, except for YOUR repeated and constant
demands for our time and training!  Yes, I've seen them for weeks and
held my tongue till now.

I don't know how long you've been on the SATLUG list (and don't really
care how much longer either).  But SATLUG was formed in the beginning
with the objective of helping others.  Our one and only purpose all
these years have been to help others.  Well, maybe also to spread the
word about Linux -- but primarily to help others.  

Helping others is why we have a listserver to ask questions & get help
(a list you can research and see lots of MS/BSD/MAC/Network/Internet
questions as well as Linux).  Helping ohters is why we put on
Installfests.  Helping others is why we hold classes with SAC.  Helping
others is why we volunteer time helping schools, churches, companies,
and ANYONE who ASKS.  But formal classes are so time consuming that
there has to be a good turnout or its not worth the instructors time.

If you want Linux training, go pay to take classes at SAC.  Just because
our favorite OS is free and we freely give away our assistance doesn't
mean we will give it away to everyone that demands it.  And we just
don't have enough demand inside SATLUG for formal classes.  

Now, I have to apologize to the rest of the list for this blunt
response.  But I've gotten tired of Richard's constant whining because
we aren't giving up our time to provide free training for him.  Today's
insults were the straw that broke the camel's back...


Chuck




P.S. -- If you think RedHat's classes are outrageously priced -- take a
look at training classes for other operating systems.  Even MS classes
will cost you the same arm&leg if you take it at a real training center
-- not one teaching the MCSE test material.  Actually, RedHat classes
are cheaper than Solaris or HPUX classes!!!








From jennifervg at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  3 15:25:18 2004
From: jennifervg at yahoo.com (Jennifer Van Gorkom)
Date: Fri Dec  3 17:07:14 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] questions for Richard York
Message-ID: <20041203232518.56170.qmail@web10806.mail.yahoo.com>

I rarely post, but I have got to make one set of
public observations.

I do not know who Richard York is but he seems to have
arrived looking for something specific which in his
opinion we do not provide.

He has criticized the fact we have not joined APCO and
offered more courses.  Well I for would would leave as
soon as that happens.  I refuse to have much to do
with those people for things said and done years ago.

He has criticized our lack of "training classes". 
Well for a volunteer group the fact that people here
do free installs about three times a year through San
Antonio College and several people have been known to
do them at the computer shows is not bad.  We have had
several formal week long intro classes that I know of
that went over well.  Last Christmas break at San
Antonio College we have like two weeks of classes for
all levels.  I don't know about everyone else but I
had a good time.

I don't know even most of the people on this list but
I know several who will quite happily work with people
one on one to solve specific problems.  And others who
will give as much help as they can for those who wish
to self study.

If this does not meet what he wants for training well
what exactly is he looking for?

He has criticized the Linux community as a whole for
not working hard enough to mainstream Linux.  I don't
know about everyone else but for a 12 year old
operating system that started as a toy developed by
people in their spare time to be where it is today and
slowly getting accepted into the mainstream for
servers, I figure it is doing fairly well.    What
does he want, Linux to be on every desktop?  That
would be nice but quite frankly I will settle for
every server I can get switched over.  Once we have
the servers the desktop will come.

So while I do not know who Richard York is I have to
ask, what are you looking for here?

If you have honest questions PLEASE ask.  Many here
will help.

If you have an agenda for the community start
attending the monthly meetings and when elections come
up next year run.

But if you are just here to make cuts and stabs at
this community please just go away.

Jennifer


		
__________________________________ 
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Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo 
From jennifervg at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  3 15:39:28 2004
From: jennifervg at yahoo.com (Jennifer Van Gorkom)
Date: Fri Dec  3 17:21:27 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Did I ask for hot apple pie with that?
In-Reply-To: <20041203224004.66770.qmail@wm0>
Message-ID: <20041203233928.97938.qmail@web10801.mail.yahoo.com>

more responses below:

--- Cthulhu Fhtagn <info@satvid.com> wrote:
> MS wins because everyone knows how to use it. I
> switched to firefox 
> because I liked the lack of exploits. Everyone
> including most 
> Linux/Unix admin's use windows on the side. Does
> that make them 
> hypocrites? or are they just practical?

Gee then why is it I have been MS free for well over 6
years?

I know of at least one other who has also been away
from Microsoft for at least that long.

> What you seem to have completely missed is my
> emphasis on the 
> positive results of the DOS revolution (wherein
> everyone helped 
> everyone else learn the system) - that community is
> NOT happening 
> with the nerd phenom of Linux and this marketing is
> being ignored 
> Linux will never be mainstream. 

For a "non mainstream" operating system it is sure
getting a lot of exposure.  If you buy a router today
for your home and it has a firewall it is probably
Linux based.  If you get a print server appliance from
HP today it runs Linux.  And if the "mainstream" world
is not accepting it why are there Linux servers
running at USAA?  Are you going to tell me that USAA
is not mainstream?





		
__________________________________ 
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Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. 
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From pfrostie at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  3 18:31:26 2004
From: pfrostie at yahoo.com (phrostie)
Date: Fri Dec  3 18:09:42 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Did I ask for hot apple pie with that?
In-Reply-To: <20041203233928.97938.qmail@web10801.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041203233928.97938.qmail@web10801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200412031831.26555.pfrostie@yahoo.com>

On Sat December 4 2004 12:39 am, Jennifer Van Gorkom wrote:
> more responses below:
>
> --- Cthulhu Fhtagn <info@satvid.com> wrote:
> > MS wins because everyone knows how to use it. I
> > switched to firefox
> > because I liked the lack of exploits. Everyone
> > including most
> > Linux/Unix admin's use windows on the side. Does
> > that make them
> > hypocrites? or are they just practical?
>
> Gee then why is it I have been MS free for well over 6
> years?
>
> I know of at least one other who has also been away
> from Microsoft for at least that long.
>
i went from DR_DOS to linux in 1997
i've never owned a windows box.
ever.

-- 
Oh i've slipped the surly bonds of DOS 
and danced the skies on Linux silvered wings.
http://pfrostie.freeservers.com/cad-tastrafy/
http://www.freelists.org/webpage/cad-linux
http://www.freelists.org/webpage/cad-linux-dev
From jennifervg at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  3 17:00:15 2004
From: jennifervg at yahoo.com (Jennifer Van Gorkom)
Date: Fri Dec  3 18:42:12 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Did I ask for hot apple pie with that?
In-Reply-To: <200412031831.26555.pfrostie@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20041204010015.85737.qmail@web10805.mail.yahoo.com>


--- phrostie <pfrostie@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Sat December 4 2004 12:39 am, Jennifer Van Gorkom
> wrote:
> > more responses below:
> >
> > --- Cthulhu Fhtagn <info@satvid.com> wrote:
> > > MS wins because everyone knows how to use it. I
> > > switched to firefox
> > > because I liked the lack of exploits. Everyone
> > > including most
> > > Linux/Unix admin's use windows on the side. Does
> > > that make them
> > > hypocrites? or are they just practical?
> >
> > Gee then why is it I have been MS free for well
> over 6
> > years?
> >
> > I know of at least one other who has also been
> away
> > from Microsoft for at least that long.
> >
> i went from DR_DOS to linux in 1997
> i've never owned a windows box.
> ever.
> 
> -- 

I went from windows 3.11 straight to Linux.  Well to
be a bit more accurate I had Xfree86 running on my
home computer before I first installed ANY Microsoft
Windows  product.


		
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Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! 
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From demeler at biochem.uthscsa.edu  Fri Dec  3 19:15:02 2004
From: demeler at biochem.uthscsa.edu (Borries Demeler)
Date: Fri Dec  3 19:00:17 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Did I ask for hot apple pie with that?
In-Reply-To: <1102116133.14699.762.camel@laptop>
Message-ID: <200412040115.iB41F2t1028602@biochem.uthscsa.edu>

etc...
> Helping others is why we have a listserver to ask questions & get help
> (a list you can research and see lots of MS/BSD/MAC/Network/Internet
> questions as well as Linux).  Helping ohters is why we put on
> Installfests.  Helping others is why we hold classes with SAC.  Helping
> others is why we volunteer time helping schools, churches, companies,
> and ANYONE who ASKS.  But formal classes are so time consuming that
> there has to be a good turnout or its not worth the instructors time.
> 
> If you want Linux training, go pay to take classes at SAC.  Just because
> our favorite OS is free and we freely give away our assistance doesn't
> mean we will give it away to everyone that demands it.  And we just
> don't have enough demand inside SATLUG for formal classes.  
> 
> Now, I have to apologize to the rest of the list for this blunt
> response.  But I've gotten tired of Richard's constant whining because
> we aren't giving up our time to provide free training for him.  Today's
> insults were the straw that broke the camel's back...
> 
> 
> Chuck

Right on, Chuck, couldn't have said it better myself. You can lead a horse
to water...and Richard could take us up on the repeated offer to help
him out - but he didn't. 

After reading some of Richard's rants I came to the conclusion that
Richard never really wanted to learn anything about Linux, all he wants
is to explain to us how much better M$ is. Well, you can't convince me,
Richard. I am a scientist and without Linux I would have never gotten to
where I am now. Linux made my career possible (computational biophysics).
I switched to Linux in 1994 (on a 30 MHZ 386, with X on the desktop
and LateX and vi for wordprocessing) and except for Turbotax and to
compile code for those who still can't live without M$ and who need
Windows compatible versions of my software, I never use Windows. I have
NEVER in my life written a single document with M$ word. I can't stand
using windows, if I have to use it, I only do it grudgingly, as all my
colleagues will confirm.

Linux is not a "nerd phenom", it's what makes supercomputers tick,
runs big corporations and ISP's, and allows us researchers to get our
work done and accomplish cutting edge science and research we would
never be able to do on any of these Mickey Mouse operating systems from
Microsoft. That's why in my field nobody uses Microsoft anymore for
doing real work. Using Windows is *not* practical. It is everything but.
It's a nightmare if you ask me, one that I happily avoid by being able to
use Linux. Thanks to this wonderful SATLUG community we have a vibrant
LUG and a growing membership, and even long time users and experts can
still find lots of help when we need it. That just goes to show the
amazing level of collective expertise assembled in this LUG. So don't 
bash us, contribute positively. We are not interested in Microsoft,
its of no use to us.

-Borries
---
Borries Demeler, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
The University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio
Dept. of Biochemistry, MC 7760
7703 Floyd Curl Drive, San Antonio, Texas 78229-3901
Voice: 210-567-6592, Fax: 210-567-1136, Email: demeler@biochem.uthscsa.edu

Please avoid sending me Word, Excel or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
From r00t_rulz at lycos.com  Fri Dec  3 21:35:50 2004
From: r00t_rulz at lycos.com (John Williams)
Date: Fri Dec  3 20:17:53 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Did I ask for hot apple pie with that?
Message-ID: <20041204023551.05283C6134@ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com>

Sounds like Richy has a chip on his shoulder...or maybe he's just another flunkie troll with a boring life:

http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=7&threadID=156532&messageID=1641162

Maybe we just need to dig a little deeper to penetrate to the core of Richy's "hard place"?

Haha

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard York" <ray@admindbsys.com>
To: satlug@satlug.org
Subject: [SATLUG] Did I ask for hot apple pie with that?
Date: 3 Dec 2004 21:04:14 -0000

> 
> I received this from REDHAT today and thought I'd share:
> 
> "Date : Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:18:46 -0000
> > From : "Red Hat" <redhat@info.redhat.com>
> Reply To : "Red Hat" <support-
> bz991t9a94ddcqbe55mwvb784yd2xq@info.redhat.com>
> To : ray@admindbsys.com
> Subject : UNIX to Linux Migration Whitepaper and TiVo Training Offer
> 
> 
> Dear Colleague,
> 
> Are you frustrated with the price/performance of proprietary UNIX
> solutions? Are you seeking to take advantage of the multi-vendor,
> low-cost, high performance environment provided by Intel's x86
> hardware and Red Hat Enterprise Linux? By migrating to Red Hat
> Enterprise Linux, you can deliver reliable mission critical computing
> environments using lower cost Intel-based hardware, while increasing
> the performance of your IT infrastructure."
> 
> 
> 
> I'm aware that Linux is the new improved DOS (or so it's alleged.)
> But Linux or Unix are both Bogus offerings in the big picture.
> 
> Back in the PC revolution of the early 1990's I recall with
> excitement how much fun it was learning a "Computer Operating
> System."
> 
> Up until that point the only people who got to play with computers
> were a closed clique known as the "IBM Priesthood." It was virtually
> impossible to get anything done with those guys in charge, because
> what they had was jargon to slip out of their responsibilities and
> the inability to respond in a timely manner to any request issued
> from any level less than a VP.
> 
> The kewlness of the PC revolution was that DOS people shared
> knowledge. It was fun. people would sit around and play on their
> little pc's and took delight in helping each other learn. It was also
> wonderful to make the priesthood - IRRELEVANT.
> 
> Everyone knew someone that understood DOS and would help them for
> free. It was a real community, or so it felt. The only payment that
> seemed to be required was "Yer a 'puter genius!!" As one of my
> college instructors said in 1988 "In the land of the Blind the one-
> eyed Jack is King."
> 
> Then came the money. Overnight almost everyone who understood a DOS
> prompt became a "consultant" and had a great time hosing corporate
> for BIG BUX to do silly things like NT or email rollouts, and a good
> time was had by all. Then came the millenial crash. The layoffs, and
> finally the awareness by MGMT that computer was not the money-making
> messiah they had hoped. and that Computer did not increase
> productivity or profits. poo!
> 
> And the consultants got fired, and most of the IT staff, and
> corporate reduced the monetary hosing.
> 
> In the meantime the Old irrelevantized priesthood went down for the
> count. Knocked out. It was hard for so many that had so long demanded
> worship and actually received it. Muahahahah, but after DOS the
> emperor (and the priesthood) had no clothes and were ousted. Now they
> attempt to use Linux to regain there golden age.
> 
> Why will Linux never succeed as well as DOS or windows?
> 
> There were 3 choices available in the early 1990's. Unix, DOS, MAC.
> 
> MAC's cost a lot and were the same "toys" as pc's.
> 
> UNIX was available and really cost a lot and required high-dollar
> equipment. Plus there wasn't any UNIX community for the PUBLIC to
> learn from cheap.
> 
> The genius of the intel/windows solution is that it removed the
> barriers to entry for the average person. The hardware was cheap, the
> software was cheap, and training was free or very cheap.
> 
> That's the rub with Linux. Even now the new Solaris UNIX OS is FREE!
> but so what! The cost isn't in the hardware or software it's in the
> learning, and there are almost no real opportunities for learning
> UNIX/Linux without spending a lot of money. That's why the "LINUX IS
> THE MESSIAH" movement will fail - it's a nerd thing, and a GREEDY
> nerd thing at that.
> 
> The microsoft consultants had the good sense to wait until after the
> revolution was a done deal before they started the monetary hose of
> corporate. That's because it was basically a Marketing phenomena.
> Linux is a nerd phenomena and radically misses the marketing point.
> The nerds think because they give away the software that that's all
> there is too it. Unix and Linux may be the superior OS's - but
> BETAMAX was also the superior format. Cost is everything and Linux
> just costs too much in the aggregate - plus the world would have to
> return to the days of having to kowtow to the evil Priesthood (You
> know who you are and you still sux!)
> 
> I hear the REDHAT kernel is so patched that it's more rickety than
> win98. I hear they control their educationbal certification classes
> with an iron fist and charge $1,000's of dollars and only have a 30%
> passrate for their courses.
> 
> Is that the way the Linux is supposed to crush Windows?
> 
> If it wasn't for the Apache webserver - Linux would already be an
> antiquity, like the commodore OS. Like all other techno obscurities
> only the nerds will play with it.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Richard York
> 
> --
> If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the
> computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost 100 USD, get one million
> miles to the gallon, and explode once a year, killing everybody
> inside.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Satlug mailing list
> Satlug@satlug.org
> http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug

-- 
_______________________________________________
Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages
http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10

From geoffw5omr at gmail.com  Fri Dec  3 22:30:26 2004
From: geoffw5omr at gmail.com (Geoff)
Date: Fri Dec  3 22:12:28 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] pardon the interruption, people
Message-ID: <d5ce5d7604120320303104bc6d@mail.gmail.com>

I apologize to the rest of the list, but I have no recourse, as direct mail 
has been disabled (and not on my end).

> I'm not sure I understand your point in talking about ettiquette when
> you have sent this to me three times.  If you have an issue with any
> posts I have made to the SATLUG list, let me know.  Otherwise, please
> keep your own version of SPAM to yourself.  And while you're at it, you
> can delete my address from any list you have.
>
> On Fri, 2004-12-03 at 20:22 -0600, Geoff Edmonson wrote:
> > Some of you may get this from me more than once.
> > I have sent this "very important" message to everyone on my list, without
> > editing said list.

Dennis... read my opening sentence, again...

If it's a pain to raise your eyes that far, then allow me to make it more simple
for you, so that even -you- can understand;

> > Some of you may get this from me more than once.

it's got nothing to do with SATLUG, at all.

Thanks for -trying- to understand.

-- 
Regards,
-Geoff

Oscar loves trash, but hates spam.
Get the Lead out to reply.
From yatinhat at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  3 22:34:04 2004
From: yatinhat at yahoo.com (Mary Yatti)
Date: Sat Dec  4 00:16:13 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] What's a d00d?
In-Reply-To: <200412032222.iB3MMJY06084@alamo.satlug.org>
Message-ID: <20041204063404.67885.qmail@web50104.mail.yahoo.com>

Richard,

You are a silly man.


Mary,

d00d is a post-modern word based on the more popularly
known "zeroid" meaning an old IBM glasshouse priest
that had his/her exxagerated sense of self-importance
crushed by the popular DOS revolt of the 1990's and
have henceforth pretended to have a viable  
organizational front whereas they have actually sought
refuge by hiding in generic Linux mailing lists and
proclaiming Linux as the NEW world order.

Yes they have boobies (because they are old and have 
brain-dead jobs that allow them lots of time to
construct massive sophist emails, become massively
obese, and smell bad.

Have you ever smelled one of those "Computer Blasts?"

No I am not one  :)

Hail Linux (The new improved DOS)!


----

Thanks,

Richard
From tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org  Sat Dec  4 02:04:54 2004
From: tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org (Tom Weeks)
Date: Sat Dec  4 01:46:55 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] How many Satlug members own or use a Zaurus?
In-Reply-To: <41AF239E.10502@cis.sac.accd.edu>
References: <20041005151247.40033.qmail@web53405.mail.yahoo.com>
	<41AF239E.10502@cis.sac.accd.edu>
Message-ID: <200412040204.54532.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org>

On Thursday 02 December 2004 08:15 am, steve kolars wrote:
> >Does anyone in the Satlug member list own or use a
> >zaurus?  If so what for and how do you use it?

Me...
5500

Tweeks

From tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org  Sat Dec  4 02:13:01 2004
From: tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org (Tom Weeks)
Date: Sat Dec  4 01:55:09 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] X.org slowness
In-Reply-To: <3dfab63404120308501234d899@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3dfab6340412021326286af4d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<200412030119.06581.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org>
	<3dfab63404120308501234d899@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200412040213.01884.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org>

On Friday 03 December 2004 10:50 am, Ruben G. Villanueva wrote:
> Well, the DRI was already set up that way. Then I started to look at
> the differences between the two. It looked as thouth my .kde and
> .kderc files wre still set up for KDE 3.2 instead of 3.3. I rm -rf'd
> them shut down my current session and $startx'd again and now it's
> flowing faster now. I just need to get a WM that not so phat. 

Which fedora you on?  If on three... and running a laptop, be sure that you're 
not running the daemon "haldaemon"
	# chkconfig --list|grep ^hal
	# chkconfig haldaemon off
	# /etc/init.d/haldaemon stop

Big performance boot there on most laptops.


> I have
> Blackbox installed, but i have to go through KDM to start it. Do you
> guys know of an esier way.

What are you trying to do man...?  really...?

Other thin WMs are fluxbox (newer than black box)... also.. if you're on 
fedora.. check out XFCE:
	http://www.xfce.org/

Here are a few others:
http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic11769.html

Tweeks


From wmail at wricomp.com  Sat Dec  4 02:43:18 2004
From: wmail at wricomp.com (Don Wright)
Date: Sat Dec  4 02:25:36 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] How many Satlug members own or use a Zaurus?
In-Reply-To: <200412040204.54532.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org>
References: <20041005151247.40033.qmail@web53405.mail.yahoo.com>
	<41AF239E.10502@cis.sac.accd.edu>
	<200412040204.54532.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org>
Message-ID: <o9t2r0dp6dot6eve0bdtckmi19vs1q5ek0@4ax.com>

On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 02:04:54 -0600, Tom Weeks <tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org>
wrote:

>On Thursday 02 December 2004 08:15 am, steve kolars wrote:
>> >Does anyone in the Satlug member list own or use a
>> >zaurus?  If so what for and how do you use it?
>
>Me...
>5500

Wow, a Datapoint 5500 emulator -- that's really exotic! Do you have an
ARCNET for it too? 
http://tcpmag.com/archives/article.asp?EditorialsID=58

From dean.mccall at nvision2020.com  Sat Dec  4 03:07:51 2004
From: dean.mccall at nvision2020.com (Dean McCall)
Date: Sat Dec  4 02:49:46 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] How many Satlug members own or use a Zaurus?
In-Reply-To: <o9t2r0dp6dot6eve0bdtckmi19vs1q5ek0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200412040849.iB48ngY08776@alamo.satlug.org>

Hey the 5500...I got a box full of goodies that I have to take back to
Richard Murphy next week that include his original "hand written"
instruction set for what became the Arc of ArcNet...and a few never release
controllers that would make any collector smile a bit:)

It was all part of my collection work to help put together material to honor
San Antonio's inventors and innovators...A SATAI thing.  I can tell you I
was very humbled by the experience...it's not everyday one gets to meet his
idols :)

If everyone wants I guess I can scan some of the more fun stuff and post to
the group.

dean

-----Original Message-----
From: satlug-bounces@satlug.org [mailto:satlug-bounces@satlug.org] On Behalf
Of Don Wright
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 2:43 AM
To: The San Antonio Linux User's Group Mailing List
Subject: Re: [SATLUG] How many Satlug members own or use a Zaurus?

On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 02:04:54 -0600, Tom Weeks <tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org>
wrote:

>On Thursday 02 December 2004 08:15 am, steve kolars wrote:
>> >Does anyone in the Satlug member list own or use a
>> >zaurus?  If so what for and how do you use it?
>
>Me...
>5500

Wow, a Datapoint 5500 emulator -- that's really exotic! Do you have an
ARCNET for it too? 
http://tcpmag.com/archives/article.asp?EditorialsID=58

_______________________________________________
Satlug mailing list
Satlug@satlug.org
http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug



From swinston at global-gaming.com  Sat Dec  4 03:35:33 2004
From: swinston at global-gaming.com (Steven Winston)
Date: Sat Dec  4 03:17:36 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Get over it!
Message-ID: <20041204093533.GA30652@Linux.satx.rr.com>

Why is it that at least once a month we get Microsoft zealots coming in  
to this list proclaiming everyone that uses Linux is a part of some  
elitist cult?  Last I checked, I was never involved in any kind of  
microsoft user bashing.  Well, here's my reply, I'm sorry I kept quiet  
for so long but it's time to say something.
Look a computer is a MACHINE.  In technical terms it is a FSM.  Both  
sides can whine until their blue in the face about what programs run  
their machines, but at the end of the day, it's still just a machine.
Like it or not, an operating system is a tool.  Can you do more with  
Linux than you can with windows?  short answer is yes, long answer is  
it depends on what you're doing. Does it cost money to learn how to use  
Linux, short answer is no, everything you need to know is on the  
internet and many people understand that learning anything takes  
effort.  Long answer is yes, if you wish to learn everything about your  
new tool, you're probably going to want to take a class; but everything  
means things that require classroom instruction or aren't available  
online.
Now let's examine windows, Does it cost money to learn how to use  
windows? yep, I have a BS in CS from Trinity, that degree cost me 80k,  
true I also picked up knowledge of Linux, Apple and lots of theory for  
programing and learned a science, plus my further (on the job)  
education costs me in time and money for resources.
Now short of paying 80k and taking computers on as a career in whatever  
fashion you wish, you might be saying that you wish to simply use your  
operating system of choice.
If all you want is email, web browser, IM, and user capabilities, you  
really don't need a class to tell you how to do it.
There's those that do need these things taught as a class, and as I  
recall Trinity offers one called Essential Computer Skills.  I know  
because I TA'd it for two 1/2 years.  They assume that the students  
don't care enough about learning the material to do any research on  
their own and thus only offer learning Microsoft Office.  Oh and by the  
way, that course is very much a "pay for" course at normal 3 hour  
prices.
I program every day in windows, OSX, and Linux.  I honestly view each  
operating system as nothing more than a tool with a specific use.  OSX  
has wonderful 2D graphics programs, so I opt for that when working with  
textures.  Windows has excellent graphics drivers, so when I write GLSL  
or HLSL for DirectX I opt for that.  Linux is all around better in   
every other department so I use it for everything from CVS to unit  
testing, to compiling, to backups, to my standard operating system.
If you want a free course for using linux, fine here I'll give you one,  
if it will make you stop flooding this list with your idiocy pleading  
for someone to hand knowledge to you.
Here's the free course:
http://www.tldp.org.  Read all the tutorials, how-to's, and man pages;  
if you have questions, please try the examples out for yourself, and  
report problems.  When you finish and if you still need instruction,  
write back a request for further resources, however, I bet at the end  
of this introductory course, you'll find little need to seek advice  
about where to find more information.  Now other than those questions,  
there will be no need to talk or consult us further as to why we wont  
sit you down and spoon feed this to you for free.  If you wish better  
instruction than you can find there, pay me for it.  I'll be happy to  
give you the hourly rate I charge my company for my services; you will  
be responsible for paying for that, and payment to my company for the  
lost revenues due to my absence from my job.
My time costs money, as I'm sure so does everyone else's, including  
professors.  So with any luck can we finally let this absurd thread  
die?
--
Steven Winston
Global Gaming Innovations, LLC

Life.  Don't talk to me about life.
- Marvin the Paranoid Anroid
From wmail at wricomp.com  Sat Dec  4 04:30:44 2004
From: wmail at wricomp.com (Don Wright)
Date: Sat Dec  4 04:14:14 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] How many Satlug members own or use a Zaurus?
In-Reply-To: <200412040849.iB48ngY08776@alamo.satlug.org>
References: <o9t2r0dp6dot6eve0bdtckmi19vs1q5ek0@4ax.com>
	<200412040849.iB48ngY08776@alamo.satlug.org>
Message-ID: <bo03r0d28o146sj8os0cc2etmog3maab06@4ax.com>

On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 03:07:51 -0600, "Dean McCall"
<dean.mccall@nvision2020.com> wrote:

>Hey the 5500...I got a box full of goodies that I have to take back to
>Richard Murphy next week that include his original "hand written"
>instruction set for what became the Arc of ArcNet...and a few never release
>controllers that would make any collector smile a bit:)
>
>It was all part of my collection work to help put together material to honor
>San Antonio's inventors and innovators...A SATAI thing.  I can tell you I
>was very humbled by the experience...it's not everyday one gets to meet his
>idols :)

You're aware of this bit of almost-forgotten history, right?
http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200205/msg00065.html
http://www.xnumber.com/xnumber/Microcomputer_invention.htm


Keep those shift registers circulating!  --Don

From goodnews2me2 at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  4 09:12:02 2004
From: goodnews2me2 at yahoo.com (Ed M.)
Date: Sat Dec  4 08:53:07 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Breaking Up Large Files
Message-ID: <41B1D3C2.3040006@yahoo.com>

Greetings to all,

Recently, I downloaded SUSE v9.2 via BitTorrent. The downloaded 
consisted of all five CD .iso images. The BitTorrent files turned out to 
be separated into one folder per CD, with about 14 .rar files per 
folder. Putting these files on my Windows box, I used WinRar to put the 
pieces together, then used WinISO to put the image onto CD (the files 
were great, and I'm running SUSE 9.2 right now :-).

My question is this: How could this same thing have been done using 
Linux instead of Windows (or is there a WinRar type program for Linux)? 
Obviously, the .iso could have been created, and tar'd, but what about 
breaking them into pieces for uploading and downloading?

It just struck me as odd that I would have to manipulate some of these 
.iso files in Windows in order to load a fresh install of Linux; just 
not normal if you understand.

Thanks!

Ed M.
From lug at eth0.us  Sat Dec  4 10:14:54 2004
From: lug at eth0.us (John)
Date: Sat Dec  4 08:57:00 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Breaking Up Large Files
In-Reply-To: <41B1D3C2.3040006@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c4da14$06e30980$0200a8c0@deacnet.wfu.edu>

Ed,

There is a version of winrar for linux on their website. Just download the
binary and put someplace in your path. I believe the command is "rar e
file1.rar" or something close to that.

-John

-----Original Message-----
From: satlug-bounces@satlug.org [mailto:satlug-bounces@satlug.org] On Behalf
Of Ed M.
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 10:12 AM
To: satlug@satlug.org
Subject: [SATLUG] Breaking Up Large Files


Greetings to all,

Recently, I downloaded SUSE v9.2 via BitTorrent. The downloaded 
consisted of all five CD .iso images. The BitTorrent files turned out to 
be separated into one folder per CD, with about 14 .rar files per 
folder. Putting these files on my Windows box, I used WinRar to put the 
pieces together, then used WinISO to put the image onto CD (the files 
were great, and I'm running SUSE 9.2 right now :-).

My question is this: How could this same thing have been done using 
Linux instead of Windows (or is there a WinRar type program for Linux)? 
Obviously, the .iso could have been created, and tar'd, but what about 
breaking them into pieces for uploading and downloading?

It just struck me as odd that I would have to manipulate some of these 
.iso files in Windows in order to load a fresh install of Linux; just 
not normal if you understand.

Thanks!

Ed M.
_______________________________________________
Satlug mailing list
Satlug@satlug.org http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug



From dave at coverstreet.com  Sat Dec  4 10:27:09 2004
From: dave at coverstreet.com (Dave)
Date: Sat Dec  4 09:09:10 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Breaking Up Large Files
In-Reply-To: <41B1D3C2.3040006@yahoo.com>
References: <41B1D3C2.3040006@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1102174029.2938.22.camel@mojojojo.gamers>

On Sat, 2004-12-04 at 10:12, Ed M. wrote:
> My question is this: How could this same thing have been done using 
> Linux instead of Windows (or is there a WinRar type program for Linux)? 
> Obviously, the .iso could have been created, and tar'd, but what about 
> breaking them into pieces for uploading and downloading?

Split can be used to separate files into smaller pieces.  It doesn't do
any kind of compression or anything like that, and I'm not exactly sure
how you'd get 'em back together, maybe just cat 'em or something, but
split should get 'em apart.

  -Dave

From kong at thejosh.net  Sat Dec  4 09:54:40 2004
From: kong at thejosh.net (Josh Moore)
Date: Sat Dec  4 09:29:49 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] questions for Richard York
In-Reply-To: <20041203232518.56170.qmail@web10806.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041203232518.56170.qmail@web10806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41B1DDC0.60504@thejosh.net>

He also calls Linux the new and improved DOS.  For simply comparing 
Linux to anything related to Microsoft he should be banned.  Unix was 
out decades before DOS and I can't even count the number of features in 
Unix/Linux that are lacking in DOS/Windows.

Jennifer Van Gorkom wrote:

>I rarely post, but I have got to make one set of
>public observations.
>
>I do not know who Richard York is but he seems to have
>arrived looking for something specific which in his
>opinion we do not provide.
>
>He has criticized the fact we have not joined APCO and
>offered more courses.  Well I for would would leave as
>soon as that happens.  I refuse to have much to do
>with those people for things said and done years ago.
>
>He has criticized our lack of "training classes". 
>Well for a volunteer group the fact that people here
>do free installs about three times a year through San
>Antonio College and several people have been known to
>do them at the computer shows is not bad.  We have had
>several formal week long intro classes that I know of
>that went over well.  Last Christmas break at San
>Antonio College we have like two weeks of classes for
>all levels.  I don't know about everyone else but I
>had a good time.
>
>I don't know even most of the people on this list but
>I know several who will quite happily work with people
>one on one to solve specific problems.  And others who
>will give as much help as they can for those who wish
>to self study.
>
>If this does not meet what he wants for training well
>what exactly is he looking for?
>
>He has criticized the Linux community as a whole for
>not working hard enough to mainstream Linux.  I don't
>know about everyone else but for a 12 year old
>operating system that started as a toy developed by
>people in their spare time to be where it is today and
>slowly getting accepted into the mainstream for
>servers, I figure it is doing fairly well.    What
>does he want, Linux to be on every desktop?  That
>would be nice but quite frankly I will settle for
>every server I can get switched over.  Once we have
>the servers the desktop will come.
>
>So while I do not know who Richard York is I have to
>ask, what are you looking for here?
>
>If you have honest questions PLEASE ask.  Many here
>will help.
>
>If you have an agenda for the community start
>attending the monthly meetings and when elections come
>up next year run.
>
>But if you are just here to make cuts and stabs at
>this community please just go away.
>
>Jennifer
>
>
>		
>__________________________________ 
>Do you Yahoo!? 
>Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. 
>http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo 
>_______________________________________________
>Satlug mailing list
>Satlug@satlug.org
>http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug
>
>  
>

From chuck at tetlow.net  Sat Dec  4 12:41:46 2004
From: chuck at tetlow.net (Chuck)
Date: Sat Dec  4 12:23:53 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Breaking Up Large Files
In-Reply-To: <41B1D3C2.3040006@yahoo.com>
References: <41B1D3C2.3040006@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1102185708.14799.773.camel@laptop>

There is a version of WinRAR for Linux.  I've used it when downloading
DVD movies off the newsgroups.  People will use WinRAR to break it up
into 100+ pieces and post the pieces to the newsgroups.  Problem is if
they first compiled the DVD into a ISO, the ISO is usually larger than
4Gig.  That's a problem in Winblows for anything before NTFS (which
hoses some people who download the movie).

In my case, I use the Linux version to put it back into an ISO.  I can
then burn it to disc or just watch it.  Either way, it works.

Go to www.google.com/linux and search for WinRAR.  That's how I
initially found the program.  READ THE MAN PAGE!  Its big, but its
complete.


Chuck



On Sat, 2004-12-04 at 09:12, Ed M. wrote:
> Greetings to all,
> 
> Recently, I downloaded SUSE v9.2 via BitTorrent. The downloaded 
> consisted of all five CD .iso images. The BitTorrent files turned out to 
> be separated into one folder per CD, with about 14 .rar files per 
> folder. Putting these files on my Windows box, I used WinRar to put the 
> pieces together, then used WinISO to put the image onto CD (the files 
> were great, and I'm running SUSE 9.2 right now :-).
> 
> My question is this: How could this same thing have been done using 
> Linux instead of Windows (or is there a WinRar type program for Linux)? 
> Obviously, the .iso could have been created, and tar'd, but what about 
> breaking them into pieces for uploading and downloading?
> 
> It just struck me as odd that I would have to manipulate some of these 
> .iso files in Windows in order to load a fresh install of Linux; just 
> not normal if you understand.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ed M.
> _______________________________________________
> Satlug mailing list
> Satlug@satlug.org
> http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug


From wolle at stic.net  Sun Dec  5 05:04:27 2004
From: wolle at stic.net (Wayne Wolle)
Date: Sun Dec  5 05:45:27 2004
Subject: [SATLUG] Slackware upgrade
Message-ID: <41B2EB3B.6030304@stic.net>

Hello all:

I have been lurking here for some time now trying to soak up some 
knowledge and learn a
little something about Linux.  Yesterday morning I decided to bite the 
bullet and upgrade from
Slackware 9.1 to version 10. ( 9.1 was working flawlessly)  I 
reformatted the drive and did a full
install which went well.  I downloaded and installed the kdetv package 
for version 10 from
linuxpackages.net.  Now whenever I try to start kdetv it complains about 
the V4L drivers.
I have tried both kernels that came with the Slackware 10 cd's (2.4.26 & 
2.6.7).  I am currently
running the 2.6.7 kernel and will attach my dmesg. 

Thanks in advance:
Wayne
-------------- next part --------------
interface info at c000:e700
vesafb: scrolling: redraw
fb0: VESA VGA frame buffer device
Simple Boot Flag at 0x3a set to 0x1
apm: BIOS version 1.2 Flags 0x03 (Driver version 1.16ac)
apm: overridden by ACPI.
VFS: Disk quotas dquot_6.5.1
Dquot-cache hash table entries: 1024 (order 0, 4096 bytes)
Initializing Cryptographic API
pci_hotplug: PCI Hot Plug PCI Core version: 0.5
isapnp: Scanning for PnP cards...
isapnp: No Plug & Play device found
Console: switching to colour frame buffer device 128x48
Real Time Clock Driver v1.12
Serial: 8250/16550 driver $Revision: 1.90 $ 48 ports, IRQ sharing enabled
ttyS0 at I/O 0x3f8 (irq = 4) is a 16550A
ttyS1 at I/O 0x2f8 (irq = 3) is a 16550A
Using anticipatory io scheduler
Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 1.44M
FDC 0 is a post-1991 82077
RAMDISK driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 16384K size 1024 blocksize
divert: not allocating divert_blk for non-ethernet device lo
Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 7.00alpha2
ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx
ICH4: IDE controller at PCI slot 0000:00:1f.1
ICH4: chipset revision 1
ICH4: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later
    ide0: BM-DMA at 0xf000-0xf007, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:DMA
    ide1: BM-DMA at 0xf008-0xf00f, BIOS settings: hdc:DMA, hdd:DMA
hda: WDC WD1200BB-00CAA1, ATA DISK drive
hdb: Maxtor 6Y160P0, ATA DISK drive
ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
hdc: PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W8432T, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
hdd: TDK DVDRW0404N, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
hdc: Disabling (U)DMA for PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W8432T (blacklisted)
ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15
hda: max request size: 128KiB
hda: 234441648 sectors (120034 MB) w/2048KiB Cache, CHS=65535/16/63, UDMA(100)
 hda: hda1 hda2 < hda5 >
hdb: max request size: 1024KiB
hdb: 320173056 sectors (163928 MB) w/7936KiB Cache, CHS=19929/255/63, UDMA(100)
 hdb: hdb1 hdb2
hdc: ATAPI 32X CD-ROM CD-R/RW drive, 4096kB Cache
Uniform CD-ROM driver Revision: 3.20
hdd: ATAPI 40X DVD-ROM DVD-R CD-R/RW drive, 2048kB Cache, UDMA(33)
ide-floppy driver 0.99.newide
usbcore: registered new driver hiddev
usbcore: registered new driver usbhid
drivers/usb/input/hid-core.c: v2.0:USB HID core driver
mice: PS/2 mouse device common for all mice
serio: i8042 AUX port at 0x60,0x64 irq 12
serio: i8042 KBD port at 0x60,0x64 irq 1
input: AT Translated Set 2 keyboard on isa0060/serio0
NET: Registered protocol family 2
IP: routing cache hash table of 4096 buckets, 32Kbytes
TCP: Hash tables configured (established 32768 bind 65536)
Initializing IPsec netlink socket
NET: Registered protocol family 1
NET: Registered protocol family 17
ACPI: (supports S0 S1 S4 S5)
VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem) readonly.
Freeing unused kernel memory: 144k freed
Adding 506008k swap on /dev/hdb1.  Priority:-1 extents:1
input: ImPS/2 Generic Wheel Mouse on isa0060/serio1
Linux agpgart interface v0.100 (c) Dave Jones
NTFS driver 2.1.14 [Flags: R/W MODULE].
NTFS-fs warning (device hda5): ntfs_fill_super(): Atime updates are not implemented yet.  Disabling them.
NTFS volume version 3.0.
Linux Kernel Card Services
  options:  [pci] [cardbus] [pm]
Intel ISA PCIC probe: not found.
Databook TCIC-2 PCMCIA probe: not found.
Linux video capture interface: v1.00
bttv: driver version 0.9.14 loaded
bttv: using 8 buffers with 2080k (520 pages) each for capture
bttv: Bt8xx card found (0).
PCI: Enabling device 0000:02:0b.0 (0004 -> 0006)
bttv0: Bt878 (rev 17) at 0000:02:0b.0, irq: 11, latency: 32, mmio: 0xee800000
bttv0: detected: Hauppauge WinTV [card=10], PCI subsystem ID is 0070:13eb
bttv0: using: Hauppauge (bt878) [card=10,autodetected]
bttv0: gpio: en=00000000, out=00000000 in=00ffffdb [init]
bttv0: Hauppauge/Voodoo msp34xx: reset line init [5]
bttv0: Hauppauge eeprom: model=44801, tuner=Temic 4036FY5 (8), radio=no
bttv0: using tuner=8
bttv0: i2c: checking for MSP34xx @ 0x80... not found
bttv0: i2c: checking for TDA9875 @ 0xb0... not found
bttv0: i2c: checking for TDA7432 @ 0x8a... not found
tvaudio: TV audio decoder + audio/video mux driver
tvaudio: known chips: tda9840,tda9873h,tda9874h/a,tda9850,tda9855,tea6300,tea6420,tda8425,pic16c54 (PV951),ta8874z
tuner: chip found at addr 0xc2 i2c-bus bt878 #0 [sw]
tuner: type set to 8 (Temic NTSC (4036 FY5)) by bt878 #0 [sw]
bttv0: registered device video0
bttv0: registered device vbi0
bttv0: PLL: 28636363 => 35468950 .. ok
bt878: AUDIO driver version 0.0.0 loaded
bt878: Bt878 AUDIO function found (0).
PCI: Enabling device 0000:02:0b.1 (0004 -> 0006)
bt878(0): Bt878 (rev 17) at 02:0b.1, irq: 11, latency: 32, memory: 0xee000000
eepro100.c:v1.09j-t 9/29/99 Donald Becker http://www.scyld.com/network/eepro100.html
eepro100.c: $Revision: 1.36 $ 2000/11/17 Modified by Andrey V. Savochkin <saw@saw.sw.com.sg> and others
PCI: Enabling device 0000:02:08.0 (0014 -> 0017)
eth0: OEM i82557/i82558 10/100 Ethernet, 00:E0:18:A4:36:63, IRQ 11.
  Board assembly 000000-000, Physical connectors present: RJ45
  Primary interface chip i82555 PHY #1.
  General self-test: passed.
  Serial sub-system self-test: passed.
  Internal registers self-test: passed.
  ROM checksum self-test: passed (0x04f4518b).
divert: allocating divert_blk for eth0
ieee1394: Initialized config rom entry `ip1394'
ohci1394: $Rev: 1223 $ Ben Collins <bcollins@debian.org>
PCI: Enabling device 0000:02:04.0 (0014 -> 0016)
ohci1394: fw-host0: Unexpected PCI resource length of 1000!
ohci1394: fw-host0: OHCI-1394 1.0 (PCI): IRQ=[5]  MMIO=[ec000000-ec0007ff]  Max Packet=[2048]
PCI: Enabling device 0000:02:03.0 (0084 -> 0085)
i8xx TCO timer: initialized (0xe460). heartbeat=30 sec (nowayout=0)
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
hw_random: RNG not detected
PCI: Enabling device 0000:00:1d.7 (0004 -> 0006)
ehci_hcd 0000:00:1d.7: Intel Corp. 82801DB (ICH4) USB2 EHCI Controller
PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.7 to 64
ehci_hcd 0000:00:1d.7: irq 11, pci mem e0b2e000
ehci_hcd 0000:00:1d.7: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1
PCI: cache line size of 128 is not supported by device 0000:00:1d.7
ehci_hcd 0000:00:1d.7: USB 2.0 enabled, EHCI 1.00, driver 2004-May-10
hub 1-0:1.0: USB hub found
hub 1-0:1.0: 6 ports detected
USB Universal Host Controller Interface driver v2.2
uhci_hcd 0000:00:1d.0: Intel Corp. 82801DB (ICH4) USB UHCI #1
PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.0 to 64
uhci_hcd 0000:00:1d.0: irq 11, io base 0000d800
uhci_hcd 0000:00:1d.0: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 2
hub 2-0:1.0: USB hub found
hub 2-0:1.0: 2 ports detected
uhci_hcd 0000:00:1d.1: Intel Corp. 82801DB (ICH4) USB UHCI #2
PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.1 to 64
uhci_hcd 0000:00:1d.1: irq 5, io base 0000d400
uhci_hcd 0000:00:1d.1: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 3
hub 3-0:1.0: USB hub found
hub 3-0:1.0: 2 ports detected
uhci_hcd 0000:00:1d.2: Intel Corp. 82801DB (ICH4) USB UHCI #3
PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1d.2 to 64
uhci_hcd 0000:00:1d.2: irq 10, io base 0000d000
ieee1394: Host added: ID:BUS[0-00:1023]  GUID[00e018000007f471]
uhci_hcd 0000:00:1d.2: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 4
ip1394: $Rev: 1224 $ Ben Collins <bcollins@debian.org>
divert: not allocating divert_blk for non-ethernet device eth1
ip1394: eth1: IEEE-1394 IPv4 over 1394 Ethernet (fw-host0)
hub 4-0:1.0: USB hub found
hub 4-0:1.0: 2 ports detected
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
agpgart: Detected an Intel i845 Chipset.
agpgart: Maximum main memory to use for agp memory: 439M
agpgart: AGP aperture is 64M @ 0xf8000000
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
hw_random: RNG not detected
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
hw_random: RNG not detected
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
hw_random: RNG not detected
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
hw_random: RNG not detected
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
hw_random: RNG not detected
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
hw_random: RNG not detected
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
hw_random: RNG not detected
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
hw_random: RNG not detected
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
hw_random: RNG not detected
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
hw_random: RNG not detected
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
hw_random: RNG not detected
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
hw_random: RNG not detected
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
hw_random: RNG not detected
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT