From theoneghost at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 16:16:12 2007 From: theoneghost at gmail.com (Seth Sanchez) Date: Thu Mar 1 16:16:36 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] External Hard Drive Message-ID: Does anyone know any specific qualifications I need to look for in an external drive? Would I just need some drivers or a specific kernel? I'm looking around but I want to make sure it will work. I'm using kernel 2.6.11 . -- - Seth From daniel at rugmonster.org Thu Mar 1 16:26:15 2007 From: daniel at rugmonster.org (Daniel J. Givens) Date: Thu Mar 1 16:27:09 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] External Hard Drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45E75307.6080400@rugmonster.org> Seth Sanchez wrote: > Does anyone know any specific qualifications I need to look for in an > external drive? Would I just need some drivers or a specific kernel? I'm > looking around but I want to make sure it will work. I'm using kernel > 2.6.11 Don't buy an external hard drive that is sold as such. Buy an external hard drive enclosure and an internal drive separately. You will save money. Look on Newegg. Every USB external enclosure/drive I've tried on a linux box has worked. Nothing special to it. From jtiner at satx.rr.com Thu Mar 1 16:31:25 2007 From: jtiner at satx.rr.com (james) Date: Thu Mar 1 16:31:36 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] External Hard Drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1172788285.13986.2.camel@james-desktop> assuming you get a USB external drive, it should just show up on most distros. (X,K,ED)Ubuntu, Mandriva, Suse, and (lin,free)spire will show it with out any problems. On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 16:16 -0600, Seth Sanchez wrote: > Does anyone know any specific qualifications I need to look for in an > external drive? Would I just need some drivers or a specific kernel? I'm > looking around but I want to make sure it will work. I'm using kernel 2.6.11 > . > > -- > - Seth From jtiner at satx.rr.com Thu Mar 1 16:50:45 2007 From: jtiner at satx.rr.com (james) Date: Thu Mar 1 16:50:54 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] External Hard Drive In-Reply-To: <1172788285.13986.2.camel@james-desktop> References: <1172788285.13986.2.camel@james-desktop> Message-ID: <1172789445.13986.7.camel@james-desktop> By the way, I specifically said USB, but External SATA drives should also work well. I'm not sure that IEEE1394 is on by default in most desktop distributions, so if you get a firewire external HDD, you may have to fiddle with the CLI to get it to work... On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 16:31 -0600, james wrote: > assuming you get a USB external drive, it should just show up on most > distros. (X,K,ED)Ubuntu, Mandriva, Suse, and (lin,free)spire will show > it with out any problems. > > On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 16:16 -0600, Seth Sanchez wrote: > > Does anyone know any specific qualifications I need to look for in an > > external drive? Would I just need some drivers or a specific kernel? I'm > > looking around but I want to make sure it will work. I'm using kernel 2.6.11 > > . > > > > -- > > - Seth > From scarolan at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 17:35:06 2007 From: scarolan at gmail.com (Sean Carolan) Date: Thu Mar 1 17:35:29 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] CentOS installed to external USB 2.0 RAID1 drives = frustration Message-ID: <277020fc0703011535p1c8a941ei357a6762a9c896d@mail.gmail.com> Hey folks, maybe someone can give me some advice here. I know it's possible to install CentOS to an external USB drive, because others have accomplished this: http://blog.brool.com/?p=74 I also know that CentOS can create RAID1 devices during installation, and install itself onto these md devices. Where I'm running into trouble is trying to use create a RAID1 mirror out of two USB 2.0 external hard drives. I can make the md devices, and complete an entire installation of CentOS, but when it starts to boot up I simply get a kernel panic error. Here's how it looks: Mounting root filesystem mount: error 6 mounting ext3 mount: error 2 mounting none Switching to new root switchroot: mount failed: 22 umount /initrd/dev failed: 2 Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init! I can boot with the rescue CD, and assemble and mount the raid device, everything looks kosher, it just won't boot on it's own. Any ideas? thanks Sean From wmail at wricomp.com Thu Mar 1 18:18:38 2007 From: wmail at wricomp.com (Don Wright) Date: Thu Mar 1 18:19:00 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] External Hard Drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 16:16:12 -0600, "Seth Sanchez" wrote: >Does anyone know any specific qualifications I need to look for in an >external drive? Would I just need some drivers or a specific kernel? I'm >looking around but I want to make sure it will work. I'm using kernel 2.6.11 What's important to you? Fast, cheap, reliable - pick any two. Yes, most USB external drives will work with most versions of Linux, but even USB2 is pretty slow. The super-portable USB-powered drives are very slow compared to regular IDE/SATA. High-speed FireWire/IEEE1394 interfaces may need special chipset support; I haven't tried those. (Plain FireWire is about the same as USB2.) External SCSI is fast and well supported in Linux, but pricey. External SATA is the coming thing but finding a supported E-SATA controller may be hard. (I know recent Intel chipsets are poorly supported right now.) And then there are the network storage solutions like the Buffalo LinkStation that connect over a LAN: faster but more $ and more administration. Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer cherce. --Don -- Not certified by the Texas Board of Legal Specialization. From scarolan at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 18:46:15 2007 From: scarolan at gmail.com (Sean Carolan) Date: Thu Mar 1 18:46:37 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Re: CentOS installed to external USB 2.0 RAID1 drives = frustration In-Reply-To: <277020fc0703011535p1c8a941ei357a6762a9c896d@mail.gmail.com> References: <277020fc0703011535p1c8a941ei357a6762a9c896d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <277020fc0703011646w675689a0y1566a27a13c93eab@mail.gmail.com> > I can boot with the rescue CD, and assemble and mount the raid device, > everything looks kosher, it just won't boot on it's own. Any ideas? I fixed it! In the end there were a couple pieces to the puzzle that were necessary: 1. Using "advanced options" in the anaconda installer to tell it which devices to look for first 2. Had to use mkinitrd to make sure usb-modules were pre-loaded. From wmail at wricomp.com Thu Mar 1 18:48:35 2007 From: wmail at wricomp.com (Don Wright) Date: Thu Mar 1 18:48:58 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] CentOS installed to external USB 2.0 RAID1 drives = frustration In-Reply-To: <277020fc0703011535p1c8a941ei357a6762a9c896d@mail.gmail.com> References: <277020fc0703011535p1c8a941ei357a6762a9c896d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 13:35:06 -1000, "Sean Carolan" wrote: >Where I'm running into trouble is trying to use create a RAID1 mirror >out of two USB 2.0 external hard drives. I can make the md devices, >and complete an entire installation of CentOS, but when it starts to >boot up I simply get a kernel panic error. What do the boot stanzas in your grub (or lilo) menu say? Here's the one from grub I use with a root-on-RAID system: title Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.18-4-k7 root (hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.18-4-k7 root=/dev/mapper/uno-root ro initrd /initrd.img-2.6.18-4-k7 --Don -- I have seen things you people wouldn't believe. Tourist tongues on fire over tacos at Mi Tierra. I watched HS bands glitter in the dark near the Hemisfair Gate. All these moments will be lost in time, like beer at NIOSA. Time to party. From scarolan at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 21:56:17 2007 From: scarolan at gmail.com (Sean Carolan) Date: Thu Mar 1 21:56:39 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] CentOS installed to external USB 2.0 RAID1 drives = frustration In-Reply-To: References: <277020fc0703011535p1c8a941ei357a6762a9c896d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <277020fc0703011956w295e91b6i2c82bc9f5f6a0333@mail.gmail.com> > What do the boot stanzas in your grub (or lilo) menu say? Here's the one > from grub I use with a root-on-RAID system: All right, I thought I had this squared away but found that it's not completely working. Here's the problem I'm faced with now: /dev/md1 = /home (works fine) /dev/md2 = swap (also works fine) /dev/md0 = / (only loads /dev/sdb1, not /dev/sda1) Here are some diagnostics if it's of any help: Output of cat /proc/mdstat: Personalities : [raid1] md2 : active raid1 sdb2[0] sda2[1] 1052160 blocks [2/2] [UU] md1 : active raid1 sdb3[0] sda3[1] 103876224 blocks [2/2] [UU] md0 : active raid1 sdb1[0] 12289600 blocks [2/1] [U_] unused devices: Output of "mdadm -D /dev/md0" /dev/md0: Version : 00.90.01 Creation Time : Thu Mar 1 02:12:02 2007 Raid Level : raid1 Array Size : 12289600 (11.72 GiB 12.58 GB) Device Size : 12289600 (11.72 GiB 12.58 GB) Raid Devices : 2 Total Devices : 1 Preferred Minor : 0 Persistence : Superblock is persistent Update Time : Thu Mar 1 22:40:30 2007 State : clean, degraded Active Devices : 1 Working Devices : 1 Failed Devices : 0 Spare Devices : 0 Number Major Minor RaidDevice State 0 8 17 0 active sync /dev/sdb1 1 0 0 -1 removed UUID : 941896b1:4cd2bf1d:2d320d1d:3a7867cb Events : 0.921 What happens when I try to add /dev/sda1 to the array: [root@localhost ~]# madm /dev/md0 -a /dev/sda1 md: could not bd_claim sda1. md: error, md_import_device() returned -16 mdadm:hot add failed for /dev/sda1: Invalid argument I tried to fsck on /dev/sda1 but the system thinks it is mounted! I tried the mount command and checked /etc/fstab and this does not seem to be the case. Any ideas? I have no idea what to do at this point. I've been googling around for hours trying to find someone with the same problem, but to no avail. From Jason.George at valero.com Thu Mar 1 22:51:44 2007 From: Jason.George at valero.com (George, Jason (San Antonio)) Date: Thu Mar 1 22:52:09 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] OT / OOS (Off Topic / Off OS): FreeNAS anyone? References: <20070301180004.7C65E43E873@satlug.org> Message-ID: <252A19F77EDA7A47AB9196858D053AEC20E058@MSSAVS20.corp.valero.com> Fellow LUGgers- I?m considering implementing a FreeNAS (http://www.freenas.org/) server in my casa. My plan calls for using an older box, a Compact Flash card (w/ CF to IDE adapter) as the FreeNAS home drive and whatever disks I can scrounge up as storage. Anyone here have any advice, tips or success / horror stories they're willing to share? Thanks! -Jason From daniel at rugmonster.org Fri Mar 2 00:30:06 2007 From: daniel at rugmonster.org (Daniel J. Givens) Date: Fri Mar 2 00:31:02 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] External Hard Drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45E7C46E.3020300@rugmonster.org> Don Wright wrote: > External SATA is the coming thing > but finding a supported E-SATA controller may be hard. 3ware is the way to go if you want eSATA. They have full vanilla kernel support and hardware RAID. Not cheap, but not as expensive as SCSI. From leon36 at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 08:17:09 2007 From: leon36 at gmail.com (Samuel Leon) Date: Fri Mar 2 08:17:31 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] OT / OOS (Off Topic / Off OS): FreeNAS anyone? In-Reply-To: <252A19F77EDA7A47AB9196858D053AEC20E058@MSSAVS20.corp.valero.com> References: <20070301180004.7C65E43E873@satlug.org> <252A19F77EDA7A47AB9196858D053AEC20E058@MSSAVS20.corp.valero.com> Message-ID: <45E831E5.6050502@gmail.com> George, Jason (San Antonio) wrote: > Fellow LUGgers- > > I?m considering implementing a FreeNAS (http://www.freenas.org/) server in my casa. My plan calls for using an older box, a Compact Flash card (w/ CF to IDE adapter) as the FreeNAS home drive and whatever disks I can scrounge up as storage. > > Anyone here have any advice, tips or success / horror stories they're willing to share? Thanks! -Jason > The main thing is that with a cf, card you are only going to be able to read and write to it at like 2MBs unless you get an adapter that supports DMA. They are out there from what I have heard but I have not found one yet. So if you find one let me know where you got it at :) Sam From hector.bojorquez at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 14:04:54 2007 From: hector.bojorquez at gmail.com (Hector Bojorquez) Date: Fri Mar 2 14:05:17 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] backup recommendations Message-ID: <2470980d0703021204j2a47f085if57252f50b6f5412@mail.gmail.com> What exactly are the procedures for backing up an entire web server, in case of total failure? System--- Fedora 5 From jeremymann at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 14:14:14 2007 From: jeremymann at gmail.com (Jeremy Mann) Date: Fri Mar 2 14:14:37 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] backup recommendations In-Reply-To: <2470980d0703021204j2a47f085if57252f50b6f5412@mail.gmail.com> References: <2470980d0703021204j2a47f085if57252f50b6f5412@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <79ec289f0703021214o6f57abfawb13e4623e70b9589@mail.gmail.com> rsync -av --no-whole-file --delete --exclude="proc" --exclude="sys" / /mnt/sparehd/. Run that once or twice a day On 3/2/07, Hector Bojorquez wrote: > What exactly are the procedures for backing up an entire web server, in case > of total failure? > System--- Fedora 5 > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > -- Jeremy Mann jeremy@biochem.uthscsa.edu University of Texas Health Science Center Bioinformatics Core Facility http://www.bioinformatics.uthscsa.edu Phone: (210) 567-2672 From jtiner at satx.rr.com Fri Mar 2 14:41:40 2007 From: jtiner at satx.rr.com (james) Date: Fri Mar 2 14:41:44 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] backup recommendations In-Reply-To: <79ec289f0703021214o6f57abfawb13e4623e70b9589@mail.gmail.com> References: <2470980d0703021204j2a47f085if57252f50b6f5412@mail.gmail.com> <79ec289f0703021214o6f57abfawb13e4623e70b9589@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1172868100.13986.22.camel@james-desktop> Good start, but maybe hector should give a little more information. Having done much Disaster Recovery planning and Business continuity planning, I must ask if he is asking for what he really needs. Hector, could you expand on what your requirements are? Jeremy's solution will certainly do what you asked, but just doing it that way would imply that you keep a spare drive of equal or greater size than the space you take up on the current server and that the HDD stay attached to the server. if you had a massive power surge, for example, that backup would possibly be affected as well and thus do you no good. Like I said, Jeremy's solution is correct for the question asked, but is the question correct? On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 14:14 -0600, Jeremy Mann wrote: > rsync -av --no-whole-file --delete --exclude="proc" --exclude="sys" / > /mnt/sparehd/. > > Run that once or twice a day > > On 3/2/07, Hector Bojorquez wrote: > > What exactly are the procedures for backing up an entire web server, in case > > of total failure? > > System--- Fedora 5 > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > SATLUG mailing list > > SATLUG@satlug.org > > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > > > > > -- > Jeremy Mann > jeremy@biochem.uthscsa.edu > > University of Texas Health Science Center > Bioinformatics Core Facility > http://www.bioinformatics.uthscsa.edu > Phone: (210) 567-2672 From RHERMIDA at panam.edu Fri Mar 2 14:45:11 2007 From: RHERMIDA at panam.edu (RHERMIDA@panam.edu) Date: Fri Mar 2 14:46:07 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Fun with the mv command Message-ID: <01MDQWFXZ15E8X3VFC@panam.edu> Gang, One of my co-workers just presented me with an interesting poser: what happens when you type the following command in a regular shell window: mv test.bs *.sh We are able to see that the file goes away, but we are curious as to what really is going on. And of course, the bonus question: is there a way to rename that file back to a more regular name? Regards -RH From bartonekdragracing at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 15:20:13 2007 From: bartonekdragracing at yahoo.com (Alex Bartonek) Date: Fri Mar 2 15:20:34 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Fun with the mv command In-Reply-To: <01MDQWFXZ15E8X3VFC@panam.edu> Message-ID: <243662.83769.qm@web55604.mail.re4.yahoo.com> You want the truth? You want the truth? YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH! (....hoping someone gets that line...) --- RHERMIDA@panam.edu wrote: > Gang, > > One of my co-workers just presented me with an > interesting poser: what happens when you type the > following command in a regular shell window: > > mv test.bs *.sh > > We are able to see that the file goes away, but we > are curious as to what really is going on. And of > course, the bonus question: is there a way to rename > that file back to a more regular name? > > Regards > > -RH > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to > unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now. From leon36 at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 15:22:25 2007 From: leon36 at gmail.com (Samuel Leon) Date: Fri Mar 2 15:22:47 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] backup recommendations In-Reply-To: <2470980d0703021204j2a47f085if57252f50b6f5412@mail.gmail.com> References: <2470980d0703021204j2a47f085if57252f50b6f5412@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E89591.5000901@gmail.com> Hector Bojorquez wrote: > What exactly are the procedures for backing up an entire web server, > in case > of total failure? > System--- Fedora 5 I run this script from my desktop which downloads everything from my webserver onto a folder on my desktop: #!/bin/bash rsync -acv --delete --stats --progress --rsh='ssh' root@10.36.38.100:/ /home/storage/BackUp/Serverback/webserver --exclude="/proc/" --exclude="/lost+found/" --exclude="/mnt/" --exclude="/dev/" It downloads the root of 10.36.38.100 (10.36.38.100:/) to a folder on my computer (/home/storage/BackUp/Serverback/webserver) Sam From jeremymann at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 15:26:26 2007 From: jeremymann at gmail.com (Jeremy Mann) Date: Fri Mar 2 15:26:55 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] backup recommendations In-Reply-To: <1172868100.13986.22.camel@james-desktop> References: <2470980d0703021204j2a47f085if57252f50b6f5412@mail.gmail.com> <79ec289f0703021214o6f57abfawb13e4623e70b9589@mail.gmail.com> <1172868100.13986.22.camel@james-desktop> Message-ID: <79ec289f0703021326t54a08351q299c2288ac537e04@mail.gmail.com> That is just a simple backup solution. Good for general backups. You can have any number of backup varieties, using the -e ssh option to backup to a remote server, adding incrementals, just to name a few. On 3/2/07, james wrote: > Good start, but maybe hector should give a little more information. > Having done much Disaster Recovery planning and Business continuity > planning, I must ask if he is asking for what he really needs. > > Hector, could you expand on what your requirements are? > > Jeremy's solution will certainly do what you asked, but just doing it > that way would imply that you keep a spare drive of equal or greater > size than the space you take up on the current server and that the HDD > stay attached to the server. if you had a massive power surge, for > example, that backup would possibly be affected as well and thus do you > no good. > > Like I said, Jeremy's solution is correct for the question asked, but is > the question correct? > > On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 14:14 -0600, Jeremy Mann wrote: > > rsync -av --no-whole-file --delete --exclude="proc" --exclude="sys" / > > /mnt/sparehd/. > > > > Run that once or twice a day > > > > On 3/2/07, Hector Bojorquez wrote: > > > What exactly are the procedures for backing up an entire web server, in case > > > of total failure? > > > System--- Fedora 5 > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > SATLUG mailing list > > > SATLUG@satlug.org > > > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > > > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > > > > > > > > > -- > > Jeremy Mann > > jeremy@biochem.uthscsa.edu > > > > University of Texas Health Science Center > > Bioinformatics Core Facility > > http://www.bioinformatics.uthscsa.edu > > Phone: (210) 567-2672 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > -- Jeremy Mann jeremy@biochem.uthscsa.edu University of Texas Health Science Center Bioinformatics Core Facility http://www.bioinformatics.uthscsa.edu Phone: (210) 567-2672 From jtiner at satx.rr.com Fri Mar 2 15:39:29 2007 From: jtiner at satx.rr.com (james) Date: Fri Mar 2 15:39:29 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] backup recommendations In-Reply-To: <79ec289f0703021326t54a08351q299c2288ac537e04@mail.gmail.com> References: <2470980d0703021204j2a47f085if57252f50b6f5412@mail.gmail.com> <79ec289f0703021214o6f57abfawb13e4623e70b9589@mail.gmail.com> <1172868100.13986.22.camel@james-desktop> <79ec289f0703021326t54a08351q299c2288ac537e04@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1172871569.13986.38.camel@james-desktop> I agree. That's why I said we need more requirements before we can tell him what the most appropriate switches are. I'm not questioning your answer because it was appropriate and correct. I am, however, questioning the question because I just want to make sure that he was asking what he thought he was asking. There's nothing worse than finding you have a need for a backup of some critical data but finding that the backup was also destroyed. That is, except for finding out that you were paying for something you didn't need and that the additional cost kept you from doing something more important like expanding your business. On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 15:26 -0600, Jeremy Mann wrote: > That is just a simple backup solution. Good for general backups. You > can have any number of backup varieties, using the -e ssh option to > backup to a remote server, adding incrementals, just to name a few. > > On 3/2/07, james wrote: > > Good start, but maybe hector should give a little more information. > > Having done much Disaster Recovery planning and Business continuity > > planning, I must ask if he is asking for what he really needs. > > > > Hector, could you expand on what your requirements are? > > > > Jeremy's solution will certainly do what you asked, but just doing it > > that way would imply that you keep a spare drive of equal or greater > > size than the space you take up on the current server and that the HDD > > stay attached to the server. if you had a massive power surge, for > > example, that backup would possibly be affected as well and thus do you > > no good. > > > > Like I said, Jeremy's solution is correct for the question asked, but is > > the question correct? > > > > On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 14:14 -0600, Jeremy Mann wrote: > > > rsync -av --no-whole-file --delete --exclude="proc" --exclude="sys" / > > > /mnt/sparehd/. > > > > > > Run that once or twice a day > > > > > > On 3/2/07, Hector Bojorquez wrote: > > > > What exactly are the procedures for backing up an entire web server, in case > > > > of total failure? > > > > System--- Fedora 5 > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > SATLUG mailing list > > > > SATLUG@satlug.org > > > > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > > > > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Jeremy Mann > > > jeremy@biochem.uthscsa.edu > > > > > > University of Texas Health Science Center > > > Bioinformatics Core Facility > > > http://www.bioinformatics.uthscsa.edu > > > Phone: (210) 567-2672 > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > SATLUG mailing list > > SATLUG@satlug.org > > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > > > > > -- > Jeremy Mann > jeremy@biochem.uthscsa.edu > > University of Texas Health Science Center > Bioinformatics Core Facility > http://www.bioinformatics.uthscsa.edu > Phone: (210) 567-2672 From hewittrj_78244 at grandecom.net Fri Mar 2 15:56:46 2007 From: hewittrj_78244 at grandecom.net (Robert J Hewitt) Date: Fri Mar 2 15:57:07 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) Message-ID: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> You know it seems to me that everyone including myself seems to take shots at Microsoft a lot. But in true defense to the novice computer user like my neighbor daughter, the nice family just up the street and even my wife, all who don't want to learn Linux. (God forbid) but there are a lot of people who use both like me. Listening to the Linux groups slam MS and the novices looking at Linux like it came from another planet. Maybe we should learn to be more tolerant to MS and its products I use XP and I am looking at a Laptop with Vista installed on it. I still use Linux on some of my computers and I like it but I also use Win XP on other computers. The point of this message is that just because we prefer Linux over MS products doesn't really mean we need to go forth and attack MS as if it is the enemy bent on world destruction, and Bill Gates is not the Devil incarnate. I think maybe for this new year on 2007 we could be more tolerant of the Microsoft giant and tone back on the wording of attacking Microsoft or M$ as it gets put sometimes. Just remember and most of you Linux Users had business and ethics and economics and government courses know that Bill Gates is living the American dream just like the rest of us want to, he produced a product called DOS and then windows, and then Office and most of the world will use it no mater how we as the Open Source Community will claim different (and yes that does mean the US Government who tried the anti-trust suit) and Microsoft who expanded to other thinks like the Xbox and Xbox 360 (of which I own both along with a Game cube and no I don't like Play station). So let's try to remember that next time we post anything about MS I know I am. Robert Hewittrh_78244@grandecom.net From glenn.toothman at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 16:08:15 2007 From: glenn.toothman at gmail.com (country) Date: Fri Mar 2 16:08:38 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> References: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> Message-ID: <294cd3d10703021408h67b81863ved22298395976c41@mail.gmail.com> Just to set the record straight... Gates took a copy of Berkley UNIX, and crippled it, renamed enough of it to get past the copyright laws and sold it to IBM. Lets take another look at Gates, he attempted to get Linux banned, because it was free, now lessee, if memory serves me right, that is exactly the tact he used to get Micro$oft out to the public. Microsloth feels that the world owes them, and we have no input to what they do or how they do it. I use it, as a necessary evil, and interface with it daily, however, I have no sympathy for any of the current lawsuits (last I heard it was 4 Million a day or something like that in europe for his predatory tactics) against his company. No, I have no sympathy at all, and now that Linux is getting together (fianlly) and setting standards for it, so all can enjoy it, I forsee M$ loosing massive market shares. Just My Humble Opinion, having to deal with the myriad of faild modules within it, and having to now fight Vista, and for those of you who are contemplating it, my advice is to look very closely at those that have implemented it, it is a huge memory hog, disk hog, and full of bugs... This is no reflection on you, however, would suggest you take a closer look at it.. Glenn T. On 3/2/07, Robert J Hewitt wrote: > > You know it seems to me that everyone including myself seems to take shots > at Microsoft a lot. But in true defense to the novice computer user like > my > neighbor daughter, the nice family just up the street and even my wife, > all > who don't want to learn Linux. (God forbid) but there are a lot of people > who use both like me. Listening to the Linux groups slam MS and the > novices > looking at Linux like it came from another planet. Maybe we should learn > to > be more tolerant to MS and its products I use XP and I am looking at a > Laptop with Vista installed on it. I still use Linux on some of my > computers and I like it but I also use Win XP on other computers. The > point > of this message is that just because we prefer Linux over MS products > doesn't really mean we need to go forth and attack MS as if it is the > enemy > bent on world destruction, and Bill Gates is not the Devil incarnate. I > think maybe for this new year on 2007 we could be more tolerant of the > Microsoft giant and tone back on the wording of attacking Microsoft or M$ > as > it gets put sometimes. Just remember and most of you Linux Users had > business and ethics and economics and government courses know that Bill > Gates is living the American dream just like the rest of us want to, he > produced a product called DOS and then windows, and then Office and most > of > the world will use it no mater how we as the Open Source Community will > claim different (and yes that does mean the US Government who tried the > anti-trust suit) and Microsoft who expanded to other thinks like the Xbox > and Xbox 360 (of which I own both along with a Game cube and no I don't > like Play station). So let's try to remember that next time we post > anything > about MS I know I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert > > Hewittrh_78244@grandecom.net > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > -- Ft. Devens 138th Avn Co (RR) HHC USASATR Ft Devens 507th USASAE SPD 138th Avn Co (RR) 293rd Avn Co (SA) From bartonekdragracing at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 16:10:48 2007 From: bartonekdragracing at yahoo.com (Alex Bartonek) Date: Fri Mar 2 16:11:10 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> Message-ID: <411284.2230.qm@web55604.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Bill is that you? --- Robert J Hewitt wrote: > You know it seems to me that everyone including > myself seems to take shots > at Microsoft a lot. But in true defense to the > novice computer user like my > neighbor daughter, the nice family just up the > street and even my wife, all > who don't want to learn Linux. (God forbid) but > there are a lot of people > who use both like me. Listening to the Linux groups > slam MS and the novices > looking at Linux like it came from another planet. > Maybe we should learn to > be more tolerant to MS and its products I use XP and > I am looking at a > Laptop with Vista installed on it. I still use > Linux on some of my > computers and I like it but I also use Win XP on > other computers. The point > of this message is that just because we prefer Linux > over MS products > doesn't really mean we need to go forth and attack > MS as if it is the enemy > bent on world destruction, and Bill Gates is not the > Devil incarnate. I > think maybe for this new year on 2007 we could be > more tolerant of the > Microsoft giant and tone back on the wording of > attacking Microsoft or M$ as > it gets put sometimes. Just remember and most of > you Linux Users had > business and ethics and economics and government > courses know that Bill > Gates is living the American dream just like the > rest of us want to, he > produced a product called DOS and then windows, and > then Office and most of > the world will use it no mater how we as the Open > Source Community will > claim different (and yes that does mean the US > Government who tried the > anti-trust suit) and Microsoft who expanded to other > thinks like the Xbox > and Xbox 360 (of which I own both along with a Game > cube and no I don't > like Play station). So let's try to remember that > next time we post anything > about MS I know I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert > > Hewittrh_78244@grandecom.net > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to > unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > ____________________________________________________________________________________ The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php From scarolan at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 16:11:13 2007 From: scarolan at gmail.com (Sean Carolan) Date: Fri Mar 2 16:11:45 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> References: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> Message-ID: <277020fc0703021411l609d8bf5h5d376a47dc8dc777@mail.gmail.com> Robert, I don't mean to start a huge flame war, but your statement "he produced a product called DOS and then windows" is not entirely correct. Microsoft actually purchased QDOS and developed it into MS-DOS and PC-DOS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QDOS If you want a better idea why so many of us Linux zealots don't like Microsoft, have a look at RMS's classic "The right to read": http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html RMS is an eccentric dude, but has been remarkably prescient when addressing these issues in his writing. Here we are today in 2007 looking at DRM-laden systems that restrict end-users from doing what they want with their OWN computers. Did you know that Vista laptop you're thinking of buying will call home every few months to make sure you haven't stolen or pirated a license key? Personally I don't like the idea of some corporation having more control over my own computer than I do. On 3/2/07, Robert J Hewitt wrote: > You know it seems to me that everyone including myself seems to take shots > at Microsoft a lot. But in true defense to the novice computer user like my > neighbor daughter, the nice family just up the street and even my wife, all > who don't want to learn Linux. (God forbid) but there are a lot of people > who use both like me. Listening to the Linux groups slam MS and the novices > looking at Linux like it came from another planet. Maybe we should learn to > be more tolerant to MS and its products I use XP and I am looking at a > Laptop with Vista installed on it. I still use Linux on some of my > computers and I like it but I also use Win XP on other computers. The point > of this message is that just because we prefer Linux over MS products > doesn't really mean we need to go forth and attack MS as if it is the enemy > bent on world destruction, and Bill Gates is not the Devil incarnate. I > think maybe for this new year on 2007 we could be more tolerant of the > Microsoft giant and tone back on the wording of attacking Microsoft or M$ as > it gets put sometimes. Just remember and most of you Linux Users had > business and ethics and economics and government courses know that Bill > Gates is living the American dream just like the rest of us want to, he > produced a product called DOS and then windows, and then Office and most of > the world will use it no mater how we as the Open Source Community will > claim different (and yes that does mean the US Government who tried the > anti-trust suit) and Microsoft who expanded to other thinks like the Xbox > and Xbox 360 (of which I own both along with a Game cube and no I don't > like Play station). So let's try to remember that next time we post anything > about MS I know I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert > > Hewittrh_78244@grandecom.net > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > From jennifervg at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 16:19:03 2007 From: jennifervg at yahoo.com (Jennifer Van Gorkom) Date: Fri Mar 2 16:19:24 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> Message-ID: <593558.67709.qm@web30412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Robert J Hewitt wrote: > You know it seems to me that everyone including > myself seems to take shots > at Microsoft a lot. But in true defense to the > novice computer user like my > neighbor daughter, the nice family just up the > street and even my wife, all > who don't want to learn Linux. (God forbid) but > there are a lot of people > who use both like me. Listening to the Linux groups > slam MS and the novices > looking at Linux like it came from another planet. > Maybe we should learn to > be more tolerant to MS and its products I use XP and > I am looking at a > Laptop with Vista installed on it. I still use > Linux on some of my > computers and I like it but I also use Win XP on > other computers. The point > of this message is that just because we prefer Linux > over MS products > doesn't really mean we need to go forth and attack > MS as if it is the enemy > bent on world destruction, and Bill Gates is not the > Devil incarnate. I > think maybe for this new year on 2007 we could be > more tolerant of the > Microsoft giant and tone back on the wording of > attacking Microsoft or M$ as > it gets put sometimes. Just remember and most of > you Linux Users had > business and ethics and economics and government > courses know that Bill > Gates is living the American dream just like the > rest of us want to, he > produced a product called DOS and then windows, and > then Office and most of > the world will use it no mater how we as the Open > Source Community will > claim different (and yes that does mean the US > Government who tried the > anti-trust suit) and Microsoft who expanded to other > thinks like the Xbox > and Xbox 360 (of which I own both along with a Game > cube and no I don't > like Play station). So let's try to remember that > next time we post anything > about MS I know I am. > > Robert > > Hewittrh_78244@grandecom.net > Sorry Robert, but in a short answer NO. Gates did not develop Dos, or Windows, One he bought and effectively stole the other (look at the MS/Apple/Xerox cases in the early 90's), and has since at least the early 1990's had a very detrimental effect on software development for the home computer. Though the use of clearly illegal means, and means that courts have ruled illegal as well he has managed to kill off more than one very good competitive product. By Microsoft's actions as proven in court, they are out to rule the computer world by stopping any who would trespass on their operating systems monopoly. I personally object to a product where the standard fix for most problems is reboot, reinstall., and where Microsoft in the process of "updating the operating system" deletes files that MIGHT in Microsoft's opinion infringe on some other large companies property rights. When you add in the fact that Microsoft Operating systems are like two bit whores just looking for the next virus to run around, no thanks. In my book, I may have to maintain Microsoft systems for others I will not recommend it and I will educate people about Microsoft's history and that there are alternatives that meet most people's needs quite well. For most users once the computer is setup they never add or remove programs, they just use what it came with and surf the web and use MS Office. They never use the control panel or even know what it is. For these people there are many fine Linux Distributions that will meet their needs and greatly reduce the problems they experience with malware. Jennifer ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 From glenn.toothman at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 16:24:24 2007 From: glenn.toothman at gmail.com (country) Date: Fri Mar 2 16:24:46 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: <593558.67709.qm@web30412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> <593558.67709.qm@web30412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <294cd3d10703021424k59b7da07qb83e0015492a0af1@mail.gmail.com> In addition, today on CNN online, Technical, it has been released the Vista will not allow virtual systems, in which you are basically running 2 OS's. Mac and Apple are the major targets of this. M$ demands that you only use their software, and if any other is found on your system, it will not allow you to upgrade, nor (as I understand) allow you to install dual boots to it with other OS's, i.e. LInux or Apple On 3/2/07, Jennifer Van Gorkom wrote: > > --- Robert J Hewitt > wrote: > > > You know it seems to me that everyone including > > myself seems to take shots > > at Microsoft a lot. But in true defense to the > > novice computer user like my > > neighbor daughter, the nice family just up the > > street and even my wife, all > > who don't want to learn Linux. (God forbid) but > > there are a lot of people > > who use both like me. Listening to the Linux groups > > slam MS and the novices > > looking at Linux like it came from another planet. > > Maybe we should learn to > > be more tolerant to MS and its products I use XP and > > I am looking at a > > Laptop with Vista installed on it. I still use > > Linux on some of my > > computers and I like it but I also use Win XP on > > other computers. The point > > of this message is that just because we prefer Linux > > over MS products > > doesn't really mean we need to go forth and attack > > MS as if it is the enemy > > bent on world destruction, and Bill Gates is not the > > Devil incarnate. I > > think maybe for this new year on 2007 we could be > > more tolerant of the > > Microsoft giant and tone back on the wording of > > attacking Microsoft or M$ as > > it gets put sometimes. Just remember and most of > > you Linux Users had > > business and ethics and economics and government > > courses know that Bill > > Gates is living the American dream just like the > > rest of us want to, he > > produced a product called DOS and then windows, and > > then Office and most of > > the world will use it no mater how we as the Open > > Source Community will > > claim different (and yes that does mean the US > > Government who tried the > > anti-trust suit) and Microsoft who expanded to other > > thinks like the Xbox > > and Xbox 360 (of which I own both along with a Game > > cube and no I don't > > like Play station). So let's try to remember that > > next time we post anything > > about MS I know I am. > > > > Robert > > > > Hewittrh_78244@grandecom.net > > > > > Sorry Robert, but in a short answer NO. > > Gates did not develop Dos, or Windows, One he bought > and effectively stole the other (look at the > MS/Apple/Xerox cases in the early 90's), and has since > at least the early 1990's had a very detrimental > effect on software development for the home computer. > Though the use of clearly illegal means, and means > that courts have ruled illegal as well he has managed > to kill off more than one very good competitive > product. By Microsoft's actions as proven in court, > they are out to rule the computer world by stopping > any who would trespass on their operating systems > monopoly. > > I personally object to a product where the standard > fix for most problems is reboot, reinstall., and where > Microsoft in the process of "updating the operating > system" deletes files that MIGHT in Microsoft's > opinion infringe on some other large companies > property rights. When you add in the fact that > Microsoft Operating systems are like two bit whores > just looking for the next virus to run around, no > thanks. > > In my book, I may have to maintain Microsoft systems > for others I will not recommend it and I will educate > people about Microsoft's history and that there are > alternatives that meet most people's needs quite well. > > For most users once the computer is setup they never > add or remove programs, they just use what it came > with and surf the web and use MS Office. They never > use the control panel or even know what it is. For > these people there are many fine Linux Distributions > that will meet their needs and greatly reduce the > problems they experience with malware. > > Jennifer > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a PS3 game guru. > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! > Games. > http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > From hector.bojorquez at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 16:25:45 2007 From: hector.bojorquez at gmail.com (Hector Bojorquez) Date: Fri Mar 2 16:26:08 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] backup recommendations In-Reply-To: <1172871569.13986.38.camel@james-desktop> References: <2470980d0703021204j2a47f085if57252f50b6f5412@mail.gmail.com> <79ec289f0703021214o6f57abfawb13e4623e70b9589@mail.gmail.com> <1172868100.13986.22.camel@james-desktop> <79ec289f0703021326t54a08351q299c2288ac537e04@mail.gmail.com> <1172871569.13986.38.camel@james-desktop> Message-ID: <2470980d0703021425x70934660ub9b36d3f9886fe74@mail.gmail.com> Thanks so much for all this great information.. . I am looking at installing an older tape drive --- Sony AIT SDX-D500c I want to be able to backup to a tape nightly.... take the tape off site.. etc. Ideally I would like to be able to do an entire system restore with such a backup. On 3/2/07, james wrote: > > I agree. That's why I said we need more requirements before we can tell > him what the most appropriate switches are. > > I'm not questioning your answer because it was appropriate and correct. > I am, however, questioning the question because I just want to make sure > that he was asking what he thought he was asking. > > There's nothing worse than finding you have a need for a backup of some > critical data but finding that the backup was also destroyed. That is, > except for finding out that you were paying for something you didn't > need and that the additional cost kept you from doing something more > important like expanding your business. > > On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 15:26 -0600, Jeremy Mann wrote: > > That is just a simple backup solution. Good for general backups. You > > can have any number of backup varieties, using the -e ssh option to > > backup to a remote server, adding incrementals, just to name a few. > > > > On 3/2/07, james wrote: > > > Good start, but maybe hector should give a little more information. > > > Having done much Disaster Recovery planning and Business continuity > > > planning, I must ask if he is asking for what he really needs. > > > > > > Hector, could you expand on what your requirements are? > > > > > > Jeremy's solution will certainly do what you asked, but just doing it > > > that way would imply that you keep a spare drive of equal or greater > > > size than the space you take up on the current server and that the HDD > > > stay attached to the server. if you had a massive power surge, for > > > example, that backup would possibly be affected as well and thus do > you > > > no good. > > > > > > Like I said, Jeremy's solution is correct for the question asked, but > is > > > the question correct? > > > > > > On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 14:14 -0600, Jeremy Mann wrote: > > > > rsync -av --no-whole-file --delete --exclude="proc" --exclude="sys" > / > > > > /mnt/sparehd/. > > > > > > > > Run that once or twice a day > > > > > > > > On 3/2/07, Hector Bojorquez wrote: > > > > > What exactly are the procedures for backing up an entire web > server, in case > > > > > of total failure? > > > > > System--- Fedora 5 > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > SATLUG mailing list > > > > > SATLUG@satlug.org > > > > > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > > > > > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Jeremy Mann > > > > jeremy@biochem.uthscsa.edu > > > > > > > > University of Texas Health Science Center > > > > Bioinformatics Core Facility > > > > http://www.bioinformatics.uthscsa.edu > > > > Phone: (210) 567-2672 > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > SATLUG mailing list > > > SATLUG@satlug.org > > > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > > > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > > > > > > > > > -- > > Jeremy Mann > > jeremy@biochem.uthscsa.edu > > > > University of Texas Health Science Center > > Bioinformatics Core Facility > > http://www.bioinformatics.uthscsa.edu > > Phone: (210) 567-2672 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > From bartonekdragracing at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 16:27:52 2007 From: bartonekdragracing at yahoo.com (Alex Bartonek) Date: Fri Mar 2 16:28:14 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: <294cd3d10703021424k59b7da07qb83e0015492a0af1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <323110.67343.qm@web55611.mail.re4.yahoo.com> good points Glenn & Jennifer. My sentiments exactly. I'm not going to accept Microsoft software/tactics because they think their way is the right way. I think if you're expecting us to smoke the peace pipe together and prance around in a field of flowers with other Microsoft fairies, then you're on the wrong ML. -Alex --- country wrote: > In addition, today on CNN online, Technical, it has > been released the Vista > will not allow virtual systems, in which you are > basically running 2 OS's. > Mac and Apple are the major targets of this. M$ > demands that you only use > their software, and if any other is found on your > system, it will not allow > you to upgrade, nor (as I understand) allow you to > install dual boots to it > with other OS's, i.e. LInux or Apple > > > > On 3/2/07, Jennifer Van Gorkom > wrote: > > > > --- Robert J Hewitt > > wrote: > > > > > You know it seems to me that everyone including > > > myself seems to take shots > > > at Microsoft a lot. But in true defense to the > > > novice computer user like my > > > neighbor daughter, the nice family just up the > > > street and even my wife, all > > > who don't want to learn Linux. (God forbid) but > > > there are a lot of people > > > who use both like me. Listening to the Linux > groups > > > slam MS and the novices > > > looking at Linux like it came from another > planet. > > > Maybe we should learn to > > > be more tolerant to MS and its products I use XP > and > > > I am looking at a > > > Laptop with Vista installed on it. I still use > > > Linux on some of my > > > computers and I like it but I also use Win XP on > > > other computers. The point > > > of this message is that just because we prefer > Linux > > > over MS products > > > doesn't really mean we need to go forth and > attack > > > MS as if it is the enemy > > > bent on world destruction, and Bill Gates is not > the > > > Devil incarnate. I > > > think maybe for this new year on 2007 we could > be > > > more tolerant of the > > > Microsoft giant and tone back on the wording of > > > attacking Microsoft or M$ as > > > it gets put sometimes. Just remember and most > of > > > you Linux Users had > > > business and ethics and economics and government > > > courses know that Bill > > > Gates is living the American dream just like the > > > rest of us want to, he > > > produced a product called DOS and then windows, > and > > > then Office and most of > > > the world will use it no mater how we as the > Open > > > Source Community will > > > claim different (and yes that does mean the US > > > Government who tried the > > > anti-trust suit) and Microsoft who expanded to > other > > > thinks like the Xbox > > > and Xbox 360 (of which I own both along with a > Game > > > cube and no I don't > > > like Play station). So let's try to remember > that > > > next time we post anything > > > about MS I know I am. > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > Hewittrh_78244@grandecom.net > > > > > > > > > Sorry Robert, but in a short answer NO. > > > > Gates did not develop Dos, or Windows, One he > bought > > and effectively stole the other (look at the > > MS/Apple/Xerox cases in the early 90's), and has > since > > at least the early 1990's had a very detrimental > > effect on software development for the home > computer. > > Though the use of clearly illegal means, and means > > that courts have ruled illegal as well he has > managed > > to kill off more than one very good competitive > > product. By Microsoft's actions as proven in > court, > > they are out to rule the computer world by > stopping > > any who would trespass on their operating systems > > monopoly. > > > > I personally object to a product where the > standard > > fix for most problems is reboot, reinstall., and > where > > Microsoft in the process of "updating the > operating > > system" deletes files that MIGHT in Microsoft's > > opinion infringe on some other large companies > > property rights. When you add in the fact that > > Microsoft Operating systems are like two bit > whores > > just looking for the next virus to run around, no > > thanks. > > > > In my book, I may have to maintain Microsoft > systems > > for others I will not recommend it and I will > educate > > people about Microsoft's history and that there > are > > alternatives that meet most people's needs quite > well. > > > > For most users once the computer is setup they > never > > add or remove programs, they just use what it came > > with and surf the web and use MS Office. They > never > > use the control panel or even know what it is. > For > > these people there are many fine Linux > Distributions > > that will meet their needs and greatly reduce the > > problems they experience with malware. > > > > Jennifer > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Be a PS3 game guru. > > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and > previews at Yahoo! > > Games. > > > http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > SATLUG mailing list > > SATLUG@satlug.org > > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to > unsubscribe > > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to > unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never Miss an Email Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! http://mobile.yahoo.com/services?promote=mail From jhammer at accd.edu Fri Mar 2 16:30:13 2007 From: jhammer at accd.edu (John Hammer) Date: Fri Mar 2 16:30:47 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> References: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> Message-ID: <45E8A575.9050301@accd.edu> on 03/02/2007 03:56 PM Robert J Hewitt said the following: > You know it seems to me that everyone including myself seems to take shots > at Microsoft a lot. But in true defense to the novice computer user like my > neighbor daughter, the nice family just up the street and even my wife, all > who don't want to learn Linux. (God forbid) but there are a lot of people .... rest deleted .... > > > > > > > > Robert > > Hewittrh_78244@grandecom.net > > > > > > > Robert-- Just what do you mean when you say you "don't want to learn Linux"? I've had several people tell me that and I've never understood what they mean. With Microsoft Windows there is basically learning the applications one uses in the course of being at the computer, Outlook, Word, some games, perhaps a few others. Rarely do you have to know how Windows works. In fact, you are strongly discouraged from knowing how the behind-the-scenes activities are done. With Linux, you can learn how it works if you want to but you don't have to any more than with Windows. You can use the same types of programs, plus you have a lot more choices among those programs. You can decide the level of involvement you are comfortable with. The basic difference as I see it is that Microsoft makes the choices for you and Linux will give you defaults that you can override if you so choose. John Hammer From daniel at rugmonster.org Fri Mar 2 17:05:58 2007 From: daniel at rugmonster.org (Daniel J. Givens) Date: Fri Mar 2 17:06:47 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] backup recommendations In-Reply-To: <2470980d0703021425x70934660ub9b36d3f9886fe74@mail.gmail.com> References: <2470980d0703021204j2a47f085if57252f50b6f5412@mail.gmail.com> <79ec289f0703021214o6f57abfawb13e4623e70b9589@mail.gmail.com> <1172868100.13986.22.camel@james-desktop> <79ec289f0703021326t54a08351q299c2288ac537e04@mail.gmail.com> <1172871569.13986.38.camel@james-desktop> <2470980d0703021425x70934660ub9b36d3f9886fe74@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E8ADD6.2090206@rugmonster.org> Tapes are unreliable and unnecessarily expensive. An off-site VPN, disk to disk backup would be a better solution. Backup the logs, document root, configs and databases (if applicable) regularly. Better yet, store your configs in an SVN repo and keep that backed up. Only do full system backups occasionally, and I would say if you are using stock packages, then just backup your package list and leave the distro provided stuff out of the backups all together. What I do for my clients who are limited in funds and storage space is backup the critical areas regularly. The standard stuff that comes from the distro is going to be able to be recovered with a quick re-install on new hardware. So in case of a critical failure, you pop in your install disk to the new server, install, update and then restore your configs, websites from SVN and databases. The other option is to use LVM with /var and /usr/local as separate logical volumes. Back those up as snapshots, then once you have your freshly installed system, you copy snapshots back to the newly created LVs on the new system. If you have more money to play with and two or more datacenters, go more enterprise. Setup a two backup (file) servers in a failover cluster hooked to a SAN. Have this setup at both datacenters with a VPN between the two. Do said backups as I described before to both backup servers. You have high speed recovery possible should you lose a server in the datacenter, or if you lose a whole datacenter. If you lose both, you're screwed. I'm a little hurried in writing this as I'm about to run to the store with my wife. If something doesn't make sense or needs more explanation, please let me know and I'll address it. Best of luck! Hector Bojorquez wrote: > Thanks so much for all this great information.. . > I am looking at installing an older tape drive --- Sony AIT SDX-D500c > > I want to be able to backup to a tape nightly.... take the tape off site.. > etc. > Ideally I would like to be able to do an entire system restore with such a > backup. From nathan at gvtc.com Fri Mar 2 18:59:11 2007 From: nathan at gvtc.com (nathan@gvtc.com) Date: Fri Mar 2 18:59:36 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Computer Show Message-ID: <20070302185911.llb8kjvhcgscosw4@webmail.gvtc.com> Just checking in with the crew that normally works the computer show. I plan to be there. Does anybody know of anything special we need? Nathan From jfw5cpa at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 19:13:06 2007 From: jfw5cpa at gmail.com (Jim Wells) Date: Fri Mar 2 19:13:30 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Computer Show In-Reply-To: <20070302185911.llb8kjvhcgscosw4@webmail.gvtc.com> References: <20070302185911.llb8kjvhcgscosw4@webmail.gvtc.com> Message-ID: <45E8CBA2.7000104@gmail.com> *I* can't think of anything, at least at the moment. Jim Wells nathan@gvtc.com wrote: > Just checking in with the crew that normally works the computer show. I > plan to be there. Does anybody know of anything special we need? > > Nathan > > > --_______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > From wmail at wricomp.com Fri Mar 2 19:42:29 2007 From: wmail at wricomp.com (Don Wright) Date: Fri Mar 2 19:42:51 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Computer Show In-Reply-To: <45E8CBA2.7000104@gmail.com> References: <20070302185911.llb8kjvhcgscosw4@webmail.gvtc.com> <45E8CBA2.7000104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6ekhu254cr4hlvuvudkssfaooe9j20sjck@4ax.com> On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:13:06 -0600, Jim Wells wrote: >*I* can't think of anything, at least at the moment. >Jim Wells > >nathan@gvtc.com wrote: >> Just checking in with the crew that normally works the computer show. I >> plan to be there. Does anybody know of anything special we need? Remember to wear something green. (Celery will do.) --Don -- Not certified by the Texas Board of Legal Specialization. From albinoaardvark at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 2 20:16:04 2007 From: albinoaardvark at sbcglobal.net (mike sullivan) Date: Fri Mar 2 20:16:28 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Computer Show In-Reply-To: <20070302185911.llb8kjvhcgscosw4@webmail.gvtc.com> References: <20070302185911.llb8kjvhcgscosw4@webmail.gvtc.com> Message-ID: <45E8DA64.20307@sbcglobal.net> nathan@gvtc.com wrote: > Just checking in with the crew that normally works the computer show. > I plan to be there. Does anybody know of anything special we need? > > Nathan > I think it is this month, am I correct ? Mike WN5PMR From herbc at txcyber.com Fri Mar 2 21:23:14 2007 From: herbc at txcyber.com (Herb) Date: Fri Mar 2 21:25:23 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: <45E8A575.9050301@accd.edu> References: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> <45E8A575.9050301@accd.edu> Message-ID: <45E8EA22.7030207@txcyber.com> John Hammer wrote: > on 03/02/2007 03:56 PM Robert J Hewitt said the following: >> You know it seems to me that everyone including myself seems to take >> shots >> at Microsoft a lot. But in true defense to the novice computer user >> like my >> neighbor daughter, the nice family just up the street and even my >> wife, all >> who don't want to learn Linux. (God forbid) but there are a lot of >> people Yeah I can say for me. > .... rest deleted .... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Robert >> Hewittrh_78244@grandecom.net >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Robert-- > > Just what do you mean when you say you "don't want to learn Linux"? > I've had several people tell me that and I've never understood what > they mean. Well as a newbie trying to install Linux to replace MS is the most frustrating experience. I mean trying to dig info out being directed to code pages that are meaningless to Joe/Jane Sixpak is really dumb. The question is what time is it not how to design a better clock > > With Microsoft Windows there is basically learning the applications > one uses in the course of being at the computer, Outlook, Word, some > games, perhaps a few others. Rarely do you have to know how Windows > works. In fact, you are strongly discouraged from knowing how the > behind-the-scenes activities are done. Yes > > With Linux, you can learn how it works if you want to but you don't > have to any more than with Windows. You can use the same types of > programs, plus you have a lot more choices among those programs. You > can decide the level of involvement you are comfortable with. yes > > The basic difference as I see it is that Microsoft makes the choices > for you and Linux will give you defaults that you can override if you > so choose. yes If you read this far let me entertain you for just a bit I have FC-6 installed and operating but I am trying to learn a bit of the Linux differences from using WIN3.0 to ME where I stopped, Ya know it is a question of what I need. Don't you agree? I have no desire to be a programmer, I want to just devour the wonderful plate of goodies that you artist are able to paint on to our hooked together lifescape for us other artist to enjoy?? .... but speak to me with words that I understand .... please ... At this moment I have benefited greatly from your help ... so thanks ... big thanks ... but .... Right now I would love to connect up with my modem to my IP ..... right now let me tell you that I am standing in the cool FC-6 Gnone desktop and I have menus and I see nothing anywhere that even looks like the dialer that I use to connest with ... Ya know? I have followed your advice and got here but see most are not interested as I, most would have given up way long back. Damn, I hate being critical over free things but to answer with a line of code or a URL that has 100 paages is simply not helpful and even can cause the door to be closed should be considered.... well anyway that is how I see it I mean I have the modem installed and the sys sees it ok I also see that Generic modem driver has been installed but I have no idea what to do next??? launching th browser does not ask for the ok to connect as I would expect in NSWinX. If somehow a cross reference could be worked out to help the converter would be just precious. I think this is what holds thousands of people every day from converting to Linux ... I can see where I am headed only because of my prior experience and JJ-Sixer simply cannot ... the choice is saying F...it. dude, I going. Thanks John hope I said it herb > > John Hammer From bruce.dubbs at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 22:07:45 2007 From: bruce.dubbs at gmail.com (Bruce Dubbs) Date: Fri Mar 2 22:08:22 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Fun with the mv command In-Reply-To: <01MDQWFXZ15E8X3VFC@panam.edu> References: <01MDQWFXZ15E8X3VFC@panam.edu> Message-ID: <45E8F491.6090300@gmail.com> RHERMIDA@panam.edu wrote: > Gang, > > One of my co-workers just presented me with an interesting poser: what happens when you type the following command in a regular shell window: > > mv test.bs *.sh > > We are able to see that the file goes away, but we are curious as to what really is going on. And of course, the bonus question: is there a way to rename that file back to a more regular name? It depends on what is in the directory. Th expansion of *.sh is done by the command line interpreter (normally bash) before mv ever gets command line to interpret. You can try it: $ cd /tmp $ for i in 1 2 3 4 5 5; do touch $i.sh; done $ touch test.bs $ echo test.bs *.sh test.bs 1.sh 2.sh 3.sh 4.sh 5.sh $ mv test.bs *.sh mv: target `5.sh' is not a directory And now, students, why do we get this? $ ls x $ rmdir x rmdir: x: Directory not empty -- Bruce From brad at shub-internet.org Fri Mar 2 22:00:18 2007 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri Mar 2 22:27:00 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: <294cd3d10703021424k59b7da07qb83e0015492a0af1@mail.gmail.com> References: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> <593558.67709.qm@web30412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <294cd3d10703021424k59b7da07qb83e0015492a0af1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: At 4:24 PM -0600 3/2/07, country wrote: > In addition, today on CNN online, Technical, it has been released the Vista > will not allow virtual systems, in which you are basically running 2 OS's. Actually, that's the lower-cost versions, like Home, etc.... The higher-cost Enterprise-oriented versions definitely support being run in a virtual environment, because that's precisely Microsoft's own sales model for making their systems more scalable -- run a bunch of virtual PCs on a mainframe-style machine which costs a boatload of money to buy (or lease) and a boatload of money to maintain, but which is still more scalable than having a million PCs lying around. I hate Microsoft about as much as anyone else, but I don't like to see people making technically incorrect statements in their arguments against them -- Microsoft has already done way more than enough to justify their complete elimination from this world with extreme prejudice, we don't need to fabricate anything more. > Mac and Apple are the major targets of this. True enough. -- Brad Knowles , Consultant & Author LinkedIn Profile: Slides from Invited Talks: From brad at shub-internet.org Fri Mar 2 22:18:43 2007 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri Mar 2 22:27:05 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] backup recommendations In-Reply-To: <45E8ADD6.2090206@rugmonster.org> References: <2470980d0703021204j2a47f085if57252f50b6f5412@mail.gmail.com> <79ec289f0703021214o6f57abfawb13e4623e70b9589@mail.gmail.com> <1172868100.13986.22.camel@james-desktop> <79ec289f0703021326t54a08351q299c2288ac537e04@mail.gmail.com> <1172871569.13986.38.camel@james-desktop> <2470980d0703021425x70934660ub9b36d3f9886fe74@mail.gmail.com> <45E8ADD6.2090206@rugmonster.org> Message-ID: At 5:05 PM -0600 3/2/07, Daniel J. Givens wrote: > Tapes are unreliable and unnecessarily expensive. An off-site VPN, disk > to disk backup would be a better solution. For Enterprise-level backups, Curtis W. Preston (author of the O'Reilly book) suggests the use of Virtual Tape Libraries, which then perform de-duplication operations on the data, before that might potentially be rolled off to tape. Some de-dup operations can get you a factor of 60-100 reduction or more in terms of the volume of data required to back up a given system. Of course, there's lots more things you can do to help make the systems fault-resilient, scalable, etc.... For lower-end backups, disk-to-disk models are also attractive in some cases. > Backup the logs, document root, configs and databases (if applicable) > regularly. Better yet, store your configs in an SVN repo and keep that > backed up. If you go the Subversion route, be careful. We tried this on the machines that operate the mail & web services for python.org, and it hasn't worked out well for us. If you're using a remote repository, then having the backup process running as root can cause major problems in checking data into the system. And if you can't check data in, that means you can't effectively perform any administration on the server -- any changes you make will be thrown away the next time someone else does a checkout. With regards to further problems with Subversion, I'll quote from a message that recently came up in our discussion on how to handle configuration backups on the python.org machines: My problem with SVN for this application is that it litters all the version-controlled directories with .svn subdirs that contain copies of the files, and you need wrapper shell scripts to make find/grep commands skip them. Not hard to write an 'svngrep' (I have one around somewhere), but then I keep forgetting to use it instead of regular grep. And I did just find out that we're now dropping Subversion for this application on the python.org machines, and going with Bazaar instead. -- Brad Knowles , Consultant & Author LinkedIn Profile: Slides from Invited Talks: From dkowis at shlrm.org Fri Mar 2 23:10:23 2007 From: dkowis at shlrm.org (David Kowis) Date: Fri Mar 2 23:10:56 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: <294cd3d10703021424k59b7da07qb83e0015492a0af1@mail.gmail.com> References: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> <593558.67709.qm@web30412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <294cd3d10703021424k59b7da07qb83e0015492a0af1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E9033F.8060303@shlrm.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 country wrote: > In addition, today on CNN online, Technical, it has been released the Vista > will not allow virtual systems, in which you are basically running 2 OS's. > Mac and Apple are the major targets of this. M$ demands that you only use > their software, and if any other is found on your system, it will not allow > you to upgrade, nor (as I understand) allow you to install dual boots to it > with other OS's, i.e. LInux or Apple > > I'd like a link to that article... - -- David Kowis www.sourcemage.org SourceMage GNU/Linux Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. - Robert Heinlein -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQGVAwUBRekDPsnf+vRw63ObAQrpOQv/YI/5Gdu9Pb54L6q/WAqi/zrvBoQ3Fxdu BUH7W4XMw4o8yocvrbZkUosYHsfomdXTBuHCGdFJImVedN/bORbWTS3VT7836rga qqy3Jb2GADrlWr65zZx8uE64/bm1iw/DD7rIikUGv4TR5eKEQGZYvqWAeyN9+gI1 XofDfMXAZBMeYGNlSQxFKHTLN8zyAqzVQLbhs1MfKnhfDmHyogfx3452mDwnJzU+ j7HVxIm1OZCArW2AVtICSs3jvLcpSB63pNfZb9uwXAmBrrqnyelaFsimvhaVyjfC zDXRIJ2kgb+dCFWqqF6zuRp/FCdsqS7X6GFkMiR742sTy1V0bTOyQ1ibQLULixB2 AlchYp22TvE3nRO6RkAHOJj+7mO5gNbd/lL4uuKCzaUyC2IzBJ31cxLvI9mi5eat YgY6FajAFT0TVJrWT+wzXspFEJYxjZQ+kz46F8GBYzu28Lcv8Vwtp5LoIiywrRJz VS5lXyUVPS1LiiNRk/QRr4jNSmfywqP0 =gYg/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dkowis at shlrm.org Fri Mar 2 23:17:18 2007 From: dkowis at shlrm.org (David Kowis) Date: Fri Mar 2 23:17:44 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: <45E8EA22.7030207@txcyber.com> References: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> <45E8A575.9050301@accd.edu> <45E8EA22.7030207@txcyber.com> Message-ID: <45E904DE.3060408@shlrm.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Herb wrote: > > > John Hammer wrote: >> on 03/02/2007 03:56 PM Robert J Hewitt said the following: >>> You know it seems to me that everyone including myself seems to take >>> shots >>> at Microsoft a lot. But in true defense to the novice computer user >>> like my >>> neighbor daughter, the nice family just up the street and even my >>> wife, all >>> who don't want to learn Linux. (God forbid) but there are a lot of >>> people > Yeah I can say for me. >> .... rest deleted .... >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Robert >>> Hewittrh_78244@grandecom.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> Robert-- >> >> Just what do you mean when you say you "don't want to learn Linux"? >> I've had several people tell me that and I've never understood what >> they mean. > Well as a newbie trying to install Linux to replace MS is the most > frustrating experience. I mean trying to dig info out being directed to > code pages that are meaningless to Joe/Jane Sixpak is really dumb. The > question is what time is it not how to design a better clock >> >> With Microsoft Windows there is basically learning the applications >> one uses in the course of being at the computer, Outlook, Word, some >> games, perhaps a few others. Rarely do you have to know how Windows >> works. In fact, you are strongly discouraged from knowing how the >> behind-the-scenes activities are done. > Yes >> >> With Linux, you can learn how it works if you want to but you don't >> have to any more than with Windows. You can use the same types of >> programs, plus you have a lot more choices among those programs. You >> can decide the level of involvement you are comfortable with. > yes >> >> The basic difference as I see it is that Microsoft makes the choices >> for you and Linux will give you defaults that you can override if you >> so choose. > yes > > If you read this far let me entertain you for just a bit > > I have FC-6 installed and operating but I am trying to learn a bit of > the Linux differences from using WIN3.0 to ME where I stopped, Ya know > it is a question of what I need. Don't you agree? Honestly, I don't think FC-6 is the most friendly distribution for "just having it work" I'd go with ubuntu for something like that. FC-6 is more like win2k compared to xp. XP has a lot more polish. It's much more friendly. > > I have no desire to be a programmer, I want to just devour the wonderful > plate of goodies that you artist are able to paint on to our hooked > together lifescape for us other artist to enjoy?? > > .... but speak to me with words that I understand .... please ... > > At this moment I have benefited greatly from your help ... so thanks ... > big thanks ... but .... > > Right now I would love to connect up with my modem to my IP ..... right > now let me tell you that I am standing in the cool FC-6 Gnone desktop > and I have menus and I see nothing anywhere that even looks like the > dialer that I use to connest with ... Ya know? > > I have followed your advice and got here but see most are not interested > as I, most would have given up way long back. Damn, I hate being > critical over free things but to answer with a line of code or a URL > that has 100 paages is simply not helpful and even can cause the door to > be closed should be considered.... well anyway that is how I see it http://www.debianadmin.com/setting-up-dial-up-connection-in-ubuntu.html That looks like a single page for me. However it's a different distribution. For what you want to do I'd reccomend using ubuntu. Installation and update is painless. You don't have to do anything. You just use the box. That is what you're looking for, I believe. And I think there's no better place to find it than with ubuntu. > > I mean I have the modem installed and the sys sees it ok I also see that > Generic modem driver has been installed but I have no idea what to do > next??? launching th browser does not ask for the ok to connect as I > would expect in NSWinX. If somehow a cross reference could be worked out > to help the converter would be just precious. > I think this is what holds thousands of people every day from converting > to Linux ... I can see where I am headed only because of my prior > experience and JJ-Sixer simply cannot ... the choice is saying F...it. > dude, I going. > It just needs more looking. Finding the right distribution for you :) - -- David Kowis www.sourcemage.org SourceMage GNU/Linux Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. - Robert Heinlein -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQGVAwUBRekE3cnf+vRw63ObAQrBcQv/Sr9nRfcquQpYb9OgfZ8f/ys/xbo8LoE4 SrcB78qcrYbPjYWAdhAaOZSIACax5x92l07SgsMhAB5w7ncfP5aAAOP1pdKbMGD7 q3QkizK01/h2BtAAv2JuPqKB8lBgmZpBRFsyI5EEV8albvluJvNJifObk1r7caeE Q0ofo4X0huI0eO7QSlvKksDTVVYqxVj8MszrWfOhfaqgTQAFQlWPkSB9H3s8J9TF SyY96+BVgp0dFxRNicXe2IJngzEB1MaM2WRXuGgrYNWC2kLpMUsW/Eab4MG8NyuK Sqrr0K3G5MUn+hfotn8Blpkyu3d8eZ8mhcm6A/xZE2mAkBaO0b2ZqVIQJ9WFrRS4 nJl26N2wFnhJmz+S9vm8Z3uIwP4O9vclSotRowuu2nzBbMAgPEoPSYnNTnQMrhZ9 ie/VuEk3FO7IhBb/P9p4N6QpStUThYMYO6gR7NjtfJpZ3SWHtbHam+jCkVDdi3G0 Vwe+c0yRTtZ13UAUqmft+5q+ihoqMjzX =SUh1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dkowis at shlrm.org Fri Mar 2 23:20:04 2007 From: dkowis at shlrm.org (David Kowis) Date: Fri Mar 2 23:20:32 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Fun with the mv command In-Reply-To: <01MDQWFXZ15E8X3VFC@panam.edu> References: <01MDQWFXZ15E8X3VFC@panam.edu> Message-ID: <45E90584.3080007@shlrm.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 RHERMIDA@panam.edu wrote: > Gang, > > One of my co-workers just presented me with an interesting poser: what happens when you type the following command in a regular shell window: > > mv test.bs *.sh > > We are able to see that the file goes away, but we are curious as to what really is going on. And of course, the bonus question: is there a way to rename that file back to a more regular name? > One of the greatest things about shells is you can just try it :) dkowis@raziel:~/test$ touch foo.sh dkowis@raziel:~/test$ touch bar.sh dkowis@raziel:~/test$ touch baz.sh dkowis@raziel:~/test$ ls bar.sh baz.sh foo.sh dkowis@raziel:~/test$ mv bar.sh *.sh mv: target `foo.sh' is not a directory dkowis@raziel:~/test$ ls bar.sh baz.sh foo.sh dkowis@raziel:~/test$ dkowis@raziel:~/test$ mv bar.sh *.bs dkowis@raziel:~/test$ ls *.bs baz.sh foo.sh dkowis@raziel:~/test$ ls *.bs *.bs dkowis@raziel:~/test$ ls "*.bs" *.bs The file didn't appear to go away to me... it's simply now named "*.bs" It's just another file :) - -- David Kowis www.sourcemage.org SourceMage GNU/Linux Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. - Robert Heinlein -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQGVAwUBRekFhMnf+vRw63ObAQo8sAv8Dp86tVRnD+RWwzTHmjnOgXWIQOtwfIl8 APGCiKo6WV1llMoYkfk/mH/LOmtmrLavCu6n7yZsB8S0OGkNCv2OdZkuvVJRG4Rx /M7ofvtYupr893tC6B4kgLket8c677uyT9TI9lBAxgAiL0CubpoxrnWhcknzj3Y3 9K58fAFQFy7QVwsbTVNvI6o1XaGlnovcaFLHfbEXUXcJHtFp5YW99Wea5xxHQtq1 1u/aXK7Xf8o14uTjkfo35aYFkSJ0bn45iWvMsEG8KPQwI58QZSRHGN30QGNUKTeV QdHwCEniZhZZz13qI9peEi7ucVuTZciPQJbsq94dcvQ7Lv60bVs0ZHT+hdhsWaIP u2EtpGCbCRejVV1IzVqBs6gAo5PnlcnOHti3FDtuNWIBzunWeob9qqZ23Av2W1L5 Xv6sNlDlqmyHTQslfB5h9WM0Yw24tWeHsFLMvNzN7RW4yTB7RjHQueh8MVq8lMrD qOZ1OmDlJhV11Ce0GP2oXcrEH5noaYu5 =LWsY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From travisimo1993 at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 23:26:54 2007 From: travisimo1993 at gmail.com (Travis M.) Date: Fri Mar 2 23:27:19 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] See, M$ Sucks! A message to the community Message-ID: <1172899614.15166.1.camel@ubuntulaptop.satx.rr.com> (10:26:44 PM) Travis: Check your email (10:27:05 PM) Chris: 1 sec (10:40:42 PM) Chris: im looking at the slideshow now (10:41:06 PM) Travis: Is background music playing? (10:41:21 PM) Travis: from the slide show? (10:54:10 PM) Chris: no music played (10:54:18 PM) Chris: I didn't know there was supposed to be music (10:54:31 PM) Travis: M$ PROPRIETARY CRUD! (10:54:49 PM) Travis: ... (10:55:01 PM) Travis: You know, there was supposed to be music (10:55:13 PM) Travis: I looked at that on a Windows machine with Powerpoint (10:55:27 PM) Chris: tried open office? (10:55:33 PM) Chris: I used open office (10:55:37 PM) Travis: And. no, they [Microsoft] won't tell you how it works. (10:55:48 PM) Travis: their format, I mean (10:55:51 PM) Chris: I can watch it another way (10:55:56 PM) Chris: let me see if the other way works (10:56:51 PM) Travis: You know, when I want to view something on the computer, I want the content contained within the file, not the file format (10:57:01 PM) Chris: what did the slideshow have to do with astronauts being in love? (10:57:08 PM) Travis: I dunno (10:57:40 PM) Chris: gmail has an option to view the slideshow as html, but it's awful, won't work (10:58:24 PM) Travis: With open source, I am able to view the content [of the open source file format] to the fullest on whatever OS I choose, even Windows (10:59:41 PM) Travis: I will NEVER go back to that company, because that's what they did to me, They have their stupid file formats, and then I can't choose what OS I want to view the content of the file in. [I had music foolishly encoded into WMA format. If I don't use Windows, it won't play. What a concept! It must rake in big bucks! Lots o' money! Oh yes! More money for M$!] (11:01:08 PM) Travis: That company [Microsoft, again] has roaches, slime, and proprietary crud everywhere From travisimo1993 at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 23:29:25 2007 From: travisimo1993 at gmail.com (Travis M.) Date: Fri Mar 2 23:29:50 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Re: See, M$ Sucks! A message to the community In-Reply-To: <1172899614.15166.1.camel@ubuntulaptop.satx.rr.com> References: <1172899614.15166.1.camel@ubuntulaptop.satx.rr.com> Message-ID: <1172899765.15166.3.camel@ubuntulaptop.satx.rr.com> On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 23:26 -0600, Travis M. wrote: > extension ".pps". It didn't really work.> > (10:26:44 PM) Travis: Check your email > (10:27:05 PM) Chris: 1 sec > (10:40:42 PM) Chris: im looking at the slideshow now > (10:41:06 PM) Travis: Is background music playing? > (10:41:21 PM) Travis: from the slide show? > (10:54:10 PM) Chris: no music played > (10:54:18 PM) Chris: I didn't know there was supposed to be music > (10:54:31 PM) Travis: M$ PROPRIETARY CRUD! > (10:54:49 PM) Travis: ... > (10:55:01 PM) Travis: You know, there was supposed to be music > (10:55:13 PM) Travis: I looked at that on a Windows machine with > Powerpoint > (10:55:27 PM) Chris: tried open office? > (10:55:33 PM) Chris: I used open office > (10:55:37 PM) Travis: And. no, they [Microsoft] won't tell you how it > works. > (10:55:48 PM) Travis: their format, I mean > (10:55:51 PM) Chris: I can watch it another way > (10:55:56 PM) Chris: let me see if the other way works > (10:56:51 PM) Travis: You know, when I want to view something on the > computer, I want the content contained within the file, not the file > format > (10:57:01 PM) Chris: what did the slideshow have to do with astronauts > being in love? > (10:57:08 PM) Travis: I dunno > (10:57:40 PM) Chris: gmail has an option to view the slideshow as html, > but it's awful, won't work > (10:58:24 PM) Travis: With open source, I am able to view the content > [of the open source file format] to the fullest on whatever OS I choose, > even Windows > (10:59:41 PM) Travis: I will NEVER go back to that company, because > that's what they did to me, They have their stupid file formats, and > then I can't choose what OS I want to view the content of the file in. > [I had music foolishly encoded into WMA format. If I don't use Windows, > it won't play. What a concept! It must rake in big bucks! Lots o' money! > Oh yes! More money for M$!] > (11:01:08 PM) Travis: That company [Microsoft, again] has roaches, > slime, and proprietary crud everywhere From daniel at rugmonster.org Fri Mar 2 23:37:33 2007 From: daniel at rugmonster.org (Daniel J. Givens) Date: Fri Mar 2 23:38:24 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: <45E8EA22.7030207@txcyber.com> References: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> <45E8A575.9050301@accd.edu> <45E8EA22.7030207@txcyber.com> Message-ID: <45E9099D.80904@rugmonster.org> Herb wrote: > If you read this far let me entertain you for just a bit Entertain us with what? Bad grammar, incomplete sentences and otherwise indiscernible drivel is not entertaining. > I have FC-6 installed and operating but I am trying to learn a bit of > the Linux differences from using WIN3.0 to ME where I stopped, Ya know > it is a question of what I need. Don't you agree? Huh? > I have no desire to be a programmer, I want to just devour the wonderful > plate of goodies that you artist are able to paint on to our hooked > together lifescape for us other artist to enjoy?? > > .... but speak to me with words that I understand .... please ... > > At this moment I have benefited greatly from your help ... so thanks ... > big thanks ... but .... One of the great misconceptions of Linux. You don't have to be a programmer to run it. You don't have to be a sys admin to run it, at least no more so than in Windows! Why do you think places like Geek Squad can charge as much as they do? Because general use computers are not easy to use for the average user that needs an email client, web browser, music player and simple text editor. > Right now I would love to connect up with my modem to my IP ..... right > now let me tell you that I am standing in the cool FC-6 Gnone desktop > and I have menus and I see nothing anywhere that even looks like the > dialer that I use to connest with ... Ya know? It's called Google. Use it. Let's see, you are running "Gnome", so that might go in your search string. You're looking for a "modem dialer". That might be a good thing to put in your search. Computers typically use "PPP" for their connection. That may be something else to put in a search string. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to come up with a search that will lead you to Gnome PPP. Better yet, go take a look in your software repository. I know, the idea of having a ton of software ready to be installed with a few clicks of a mouse is a foreign idea to the typical Windows user. They have to go buy their software or download it from various websites around the Internet. Modems are so rarely used, dialers are generally left out of distributions. > I have followed your advice and got here but see most are not interested > as I, most would have given up way long back. Damn, I hate being > critical over free things but to answer with a line of code or a URL > that has 100 paages is simply not helpful and even can cause the door to > be closed should be considered.... well anyway that is how I see it Are you drunk? > I mean I have the modem installed and the sys sees it ok I also see that > Generic modem driver has been installed but I have no idea what to do > next??? launching th browser does not ask for the ok to connect as I > would expect in NSWinX. If somehow a cross reference could be worked out > to help the converter would be just precious. > I think this is what holds thousands of people every day from converting > to Linux ... I can see where I am headed only because of my prior > experience and JJ-Sixer simply cannot ... the choice is saying F...it. > dude, I going. WTF is NSWinX? How many drivers did you have to hunt down after you installed FC? How many of your favorite applications did you have to either dig up CDs for or download from a website? Consider this. It takes me at least 6 hours to 1) install Windows XP on an average computer, 2) find and install drivers for hardware 3) download and install all necessary updates, 4) install Office, Nero, Antivirus, Antispyware , A/V codecs, Adobe Reader, etc, etc 5) make sure all apps are updated and running properly. It takes me less than 2 hours to have an Ubuntu desktop system completely up and running with all of the applications I need. That includes download time for package updates. Depending on your distro, installing Linux is no harder these days than installing Windows. Getting a fully working Linux system, provided you have fairly mainstream hardware, is actually easier than Windows. Applications are more readily available and the need for antivirus, antispyware, crappy resource intensive firewall is nil, meaning I have more of my computer resources available for me to use. What holds many people back from moving to Linux is 1) fear of something different 2) reputation of being difficult to use 3) lack of full microsoft office support, but MS Office for Mac isn't even 100% compatible. If you are going to be any kind of power user, you're going to have to do some searches on Google. You're going to end up in a config file or the registry. You're going to have applications not work. This is the consequence of the push for everyone having general purpose computers. I must add that I do use Windows and other Microsoft products. I actually like Windows 2000 and Windows Server 2003. I especially dig Active Directory and at work I have a very mixed environment with authentication against the AD. I like Office 2007. I dislike Vista and I can tolerate XP. I prefer Linux for my desktop and in a lot of other instances, but there is no one absolute solution for every instance. If you don't like Linux, THEN DON'T USE IT. If you like Windows, if it gets the job done for you, it makes sense for you to use it. Linux offers me, in most situations, things that would either take longer in the beginning or in the long run, be more difficult, or be completely impossible. There are other times that Windows is the better choice, and in those instances, I choose Windows. Use what works best for you and don't complain when something that works well for others doesn't work well for you, unless YOU can do something about it, or the folks you're complaining to are in a position to do something about it. From donguitar at gmail.com Sat Mar 3 00:17:15 2007 From: donguitar at gmail.com (Donguitar) Date: Sat Mar 3 00:17:43 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) References: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> Message-ID: <004e01c75d5b$9882bb20$1308a8c0@dec842502> | You know it seems to me that everyone including myself seems to take shots | at Microsoft a lot. But in true defense to the novice computer user like my | neighbor daughter, the nice family just up the street and even my wife, all | who don't want to learn Linux. I can't speak with any authority about anything beyond my own experiences but there's more than enough fodder there for me to harbor some animosity towards Microsoft. Two years ago, when I bought the Windows machine I'm using now I didn't want XP and Win98SE was no longer an option so I settled for Win2K Pro even though it was double the price of XP. I bought a Sony DVDROM/CD/RW drive with it which came with NTI CD Maker Gold. A few months later NTI software wouldn't function after I'd visited Microsoft Update. I finally got it working by reinstalling the software. The same problem has occurred several times since then but after last week's update the NTI software wouldn't run and reinstalling it didn't fix it. I was able to download CDBurnerXP Pro and it works but it has to be handled "just so" or it fails (has a "beta" sort of feel to it). My wife hates to visit MS Update because many of her meticulous setting get whacked and she has to spend a couple of days putting everything back the way she wants it. After installing PCLinuxOS, which just worked beautifully, the first time I hit a "newbie" snag I turned on the IRC client on the desktop, made up a nickname, typed it in, clicked where it said to click and less than ten minutes later I had an answer to my question. That happened at about 3:30 AM. Try that with Windows, go ahead. I've installed Debian Sarge (via the net install CD) on several 500 MHz computers and it has worked beautifully every time. Yes, I had a tough time learning to set up the sound and get the monitor resolution I wanted but in every case I was able to find tutorials and/or helpful people who were willing to answer my questions and patiently walk me through the process. A few years back when I was learning to manipulate graphics on my Win98SE machine it took me over two weeks to learn how to add compression to a jpeg. It's easy to do, but I couldn't find a tutorial or anyone who'd explain the process to me. Six months after going onto the web with a "shiny new" win98 machine (the first computer I'd ever owned that had a modem) the computer was so full of malware that it finally wouldn't even boot up. I had to pay through the nose to have someone clean it up for me and I lost some files in the process. I was online instantly with my first Linux machine, over a year ago, and by now we have three Linux machines, the youngest of which is at least six months old. Our next problem with malware on these machines will be the first problem we've had. My wife has observed that our first Windows machines were "Turnkey", set up and ready to use when we got them. I built two of our Linux machines myself (from parts I scrounged and/or bought on eBay) and had to learn how to install and tweak the operating systems myself. If we'd bought any of these three machines in their current state they'd have been a dream come true for us. Windows 9x becomes more obsolete with each passing week. Debian Sarge, and every other Linux distro I know of, becomes a better operating system each and every week. A year ago there was a Sarge update every couple of weeks. Lately there's one, sometimes two, a week. Whether or not I say an unkind word about MS, there's no way we can afford another XP machine, let alone Vista but I know in complete certainty that I can drop a CD in my Win2K computer (1.8 GHz w/512 MB of RAM), turn it on and in less than two hours reboot it as a Linux machine that I can grow into knowing it will get better all the time. The only choice I have to make is which distro and I know enough about Linux distros by now to know what I want (probably PCLinuxOS but I want to try Freespire, Mandriva and OpenSuse first). I had to buy MS fifteen years ago because there was no way I could afford a Mac; I had no other choice. Today, I can't afford MS but I have dozens of alternatives. This is a good thing. I can use what I've learned to offer more choices to others and that's an even better thing. Don Crowder http://www.don-guitar.com From tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org Sat Mar 3 00:31:21 2007 From: tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org (tom weeks) Date: Sat Mar 3 00:31:02 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] backup recommendations In-Reply-To: <2470980d0703021204j2a47f085if57252f50b6f5412@mail.gmail.com> References: <2470980d0703021204j2a47f085if57252f50b6f5412@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200703030031.22802.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org> On Friday 02 March 2007 14:04, Hector Bojorquez wrote: > What exactly are the procedures for backing up an entire web server, in > case of total failure? > System--- Fedora 5 Typically on apache2 systems you wan to backup /etc/httpd for your configs /var/www for your web sites /var/log/httpd for your logs Write this little shell script, stick it in /root/bin/backupweb.sh, and chmod 755 it: #!/bin/bash # backupweb.sh # Backs up base webserver config, /var/www and weblogs to # /root/, and keeps the past 7 backups for reference EMAIL=root@example.com BACKDIR=/root/BACKUPS DATE=$(date +%Y-%m-%d) HOST=$(hostname -s) DOBACKUP="tar czvf $BACKDIR/webserver-$DATE.tgz /var/www /var/log/httpd /etc/httpd" mkdir -p $BACKDIR $DOBACKUP > /dev/null 2>&1 STATUS=$? if [ "$STATUS" -eq "0" ] ; then find $BACKDIR -name webserver-*tgz -mtime +7 -exec /bin/rm {} \; >/dev/null 2>&1 echo | mail -s "$DATE: Backed up Webserver on server $HOST" $EMAIL else echo | mail -s "$DATE: Back up Webserver FAILED on server $HOST" $EMAIL fi If run nightly.. it will keep a nightly backup (back to 7 days) of your webserver config, sites, and stock logfile locations (on many Linux distros). Then to run it nightly from cron as root, as root type "crontab -e" and enter: 33 3 * * * /root/bin/backupweb.sh (assuming you know how to use vi) Of course this does not account for vhosts in other directories, databases, or other one-off-ness. Kind of down and dirty (no formal error checking, space checking, etc).. but hey.. it's late, I'm working out the mocha I just slammed at Borders, and you get what you pay for.. ;) Tweeks From travisimo1993 at gmail.com Sat Mar 3 00:59:31 2007 From: travisimo1993 at gmail.com (Travis M.) Date: Sat Mar 3 00:59:56 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Re: See, M$ Sucks! A message to the community In-Reply-To: <1172899614.15166.1.camel@ubuntulaptop.satx.rr.com> References: <1172899614.15166.1.camel@ubuntulaptop.satx.rr.com> Message-ID: <1172905171.15166.22.camel@ubuntulaptop.satx.rr.com> OpenOffice.Org did play that whole slideshow, except for the background music. It almost entirely worked. Other stuff works very well. I am really happy with it. Such is my experience with open source software. Open Source Software is great! Anyone can contribute to open source, anyone can change how open source software works or make new additions to the software. All the videos I want to play worked, except for some video that got recorded by a cruddy camera I have. Another video recorded by that same camera played perfectly fine, though, so I can't say it's serious. Audacious/Amarok/Quod Libet are good music players. I really like Audacious, it's great. MP3's play just fine with Audacious and Amarok and for the most part, Quod Libet (Internet Radio is not a good experience with Quod Libet). I like how with GNOME, I can use a image with an alpha channel (a.k.a transparency) and pick a color with it's desktop background color selector, and the desktop background will change colors. Any Visual Style (as MS calls it) that you want. Any anything that you want. It's all there to customize. That's the power of Linux. It's mostly very stable too. My desktop has been running for 5-6 days and I plan on keeping it on for much longer, as it's my webserver. A 800MHz P3 goes a long way with Linux, 512MB RAM, and a 7200rpm 120GB Seagate ATA/100 hard drive. From kingttx at tomslinux.homelinux.org Sat Mar 3 08:48:52 2007 From: kingttx at tomslinux.homelinux.org (Thomas King) Date: Sat Mar 3 08:49:25 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> References: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> Message-ID: <35905.24.160.132.44.1172933332.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> > You know it seems to me that everyone including myself seems to take shots > at Microsoft a lot. But in true defense to the novice computer user like my > neighbor daughter, the nice family just up the street and even my wife, all > who don't want to learn Linux. (God forbid) but there are a lot of people > who use both like me. Listening to the Linux groups slam MS and the novices > looking at Linux like it came from another planet. Maybe we should learn to > be more tolerant to MS and its products I use XP and I am looking at a > Laptop with Vista installed on it. I still use Linux on some of my > computers and I like it but I also use Win XP on other computers. The point > of this message is that just because we prefer Linux over MS products > doesn't really mean we need to go forth and attack MS as if it is the enemy > bent on world destruction, and Bill Gates is not the Devil incarnate. I > think maybe for this new year on 2007 we could be more tolerant of the > Microsoft giant and tone back on the wording of attacking Microsoft or M$ as > it gets put sometimes. Just remember and most of you Linux Users had > business and ethics and economics and government courses know that Bill > Gates is living the American dream just like the rest of us want to, he > produced a product called DOS and then windows, and then Office and most of > the world will use it no mater how we as the Open Source Community will > claim different (and yes that does mean the US Government who tried the > anti-trust suit) and Microsoft who expanded to other thinks like the Xbox > and Xbox 360 (of which I own both along with a Game cube and no I don't > like Play station). So let's try to remember that next time we post anything > about MS I know I am. Is it April 1st???? From dacrummie at gmail.com Sat Mar 3 09:12:15 2007 From: dacrummie at gmail.com (Dale Crummie) Date: Sat Mar 3 09:12:39 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: <35905.24.160.132.44.1172933332.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> References: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> <35905.24.160.132.44.1172933332.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> Message-ID: I've been told and have read that Winblows is so much better than Linux because it "works right out of the box". Well heres right out of the box for you: Winblows XP Install (4.5 hrs) 1) OS (reboot) (reboot) 2) Mobo drivers (reboot) --Winblows now won't reboot 3) OS (reboot) (reboot) 4) Mobo drivers (reboot) 5) Audio drivers (reboot) 6) Java RE (reboot) 7) Adobe Reader 8) Flash Player 9) Shockwave Player 10) Office 2003 (2 CDs) (reboot) 11) Visio 2003 (another CD) 12) Office Clipart (yet another CD) 13) Printer Drivers (reboot) 14) Firefox 15) Anti-Virus (reboot) -Windows Updates 1 (30 mins) (reboot) -Windows Updates 2 (15 mins) (reboot) -Windows Updates 3 (10 mins) (reboot) -Office Updates 1 (20 mins) (reboot) -Office Updates 2 (10 mins) (reboot) 16) WinRAR 17) WinZIP 18) PaintShop Pro 19) Nero Burning ROM (reboot) 20) Matrix Y2K 21) WinDVD (reboot) What's installed: OS Office Suite 2nd Browser 2 Uncompression Apps Anti-Virus Photo Editor HTML Editor DVD/CD Burning App Movie Player openSUSE 10.2 (about 2 hrs) 1) OS and selected apps & packages wanted (reboot) -Updates 2) Download & install nVidea drivers (reboot) What's installed: Goto SUSE website to see list its too long to put here. I think I'll stick with my linux, at least when something does break I can find a solution to fix it. -- Dale Crummie The box said: "Requires Windows 95 or better." So I installed LINUX From bruce.dubbs at gmail.com Sat Mar 3 10:13:52 2007 From: bruce.dubbs at gmail.com (Bruce Dubbs) Date: Sat Mar 3 10:14:17 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: References: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> <35905.24.160.132.44.1172933332.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <45E99EC0.2020108@gmail.com> Dale Crummie wrote: > openSUSE 10.2 (about 2 hrs) > 1) OS and selected apps & packages > wanted (reboot) > -Updates > 2) Download & install nVidea drivers (reboot) You don't need to reboot here, just go to the command line, install the driver, and restart X. -- Bruce From morfic at gmail.com Sat Mar 3 10:41:55 2007 From: morfic at gmail.com (Daniel Goller) Date: Sat Mar 3 10:42:22 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] OT / OOS (Off Topic / Off OS): FreeNAS anyone? In-Reply-To: <252A19F77EDA7A47AB9196858D053AEC20E058@MSSAVS20.corp.valero.com> References: <20070301180004.7C65E43E873@satlug.org> <252A19F77EDA7A47AB9196858D053AEC20E058@MSSAVS20.corp.valero.com> Message-ID: <13bb8ce10703030841h1488558ao8e71e0fb9103915a@mail.gmail.com> Why not run a distro off a usb stick on a Linksys NSLU2, easier and faster though would be to just boot off of the hdd that holds your storage in an external enclosure. performance for such a low power device is really nice. using a armeb uclibc install allows you to install any headless server software you might require for it, i ran a lightweight httpd, sshd, nfsd and more on mine, the distro i chose was gentoo, more since gentoo's cross compilation offerings are still outstanding, secondly because i found the precompiled offerings too limiting, check out http://www.nslu2-linux.org for more. The hawking tech 54g usb stick also works for that. which allows you to just hide it away in a closet, and it won't take up much space there. Hope this helps any, Daniel On 3/1/07, George, Jason (San Antonio) wrote: > > Fellow LUGgers- > > I'm considering implementing a FreeNAS (http://www.freenas.org/) server in > my casa. My plan calls for using an older box, a Compact Flash card (w/ CF > to IDE adapter) as the FreeNAS home drive and whatever disks I can scrounge > up as storage. > > Anyone here have any advice, tips or success / horror stories they're > willing to share? Thanks! -Jason > > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > From comptech3 at gmail.com Sat Mar 3 11:12:53 2007 From: comptech3 at gmail.com (Mike Ester) Date: Sat Mar 3 11:13:15 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> References: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> Message-ID: <5fd31f1f0703030912m6d561ad1l84065e2a3e245b88@mail.gmail.com> On 3/2/07, Robert J Hewitt wrote: > > You know it seems to me that everyone including myself seems to take shots > at Microsoft a lot. But in true defense to the novice computer user like > my > neighbor daughter, the nice family just up the street and even my wife, > all > who don't want to learn Linux. (God forbid) but there are a lot of people > who use both like me. I'll admit that my first foray into Linux was more out of curiosity (DOS 6.22 and Win 3.1 was out then). But as I ventured forth, I found that my reason for using Linux and other open-source options was for the freedom they grant me. I don't consider myself a "software communist", but I despise the draconian license requirements of proprietary software. When asked why I choose not to use Windows, I briefly explain that my stance is mostly philosophical. I have nothing against anybody who feels they have to use MS products; I just prefer not to. I don't try to evangelize. I explain that I can freely give away the software I choose without any risks of visits from the "Software Gestapo". Then I give examples of outrageous license agreements in some proprietary solutions (the clause about not using MS Frontpage to build Web sites that disparage MS is my primary example). My boss told me about how she tried to buy a new computer for home. She wanted XP, but she was told that she can't have XP; she can only buy Vista. Oh, she could buy XP retail for 3 figures, but she would still have to install it herself, and pray to God she had no problems. I asked her, "Makes you feel like a valued customer, doesn't it?" I showed her my Ubuntu box on my desk, and told her that 90% of the tasks I accomplish running the computer lab are done with open-source tools. I also told her that if we weren't so dependent on a proprietary software package, my entire lab would be running on Linux. I don't browbeat; I just plant the seed where I go and see if it grows. From afcasta at texas.net Sat Mar 3 12:01:44 2007 From: afcasta at texas.net (Al Castanoli) Date: Sat Mar 3 11:59:38 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] backup recommendations In-Reply-To: <45E8ADD6.2090206@rugmonster.org> References: <2470980d0703021204j2a47f085if57252f50b6f5412@mail.gmail.com> <79ec289f0703021214o6f57abfawb13e4623e70b9589@mail.gmail.com> <1172868100.13986.22.camel@james-desktop> <79ec289f0703021326t54a08351q299c2288ac537e04@mail.gmail.com> <1172871569.13986.38.camel@james-desktop> <2470980d0703021425x70934660ub9b36d3f9886fe74@mail.gmail.com> <45E8ADD6.2090206@rugmonster.org> Message-ID: <1172944904.9825.12.camel@phrodo.texas.net> You have a lot more faith in disk drives than I do. I do back up to disk, but after restoring an entire datacenter from tape after Hurricane Andrew over ten years ago, I still back up to tape. For examble: I'm currently backing up around 50GB per night on just one of my servers to tape, and intend to continue doing so, even though the machine I'm backing up has a failover server that updates every five minutes. I've had occasion to recover data off those tapes four or five times a month to show what was on the server at an earlier date. I'm using a tape changer and don't have to worry about overwriting older data when the robot has removed a tape from the tape drive. To get the same functionality from disks, I'd have to invest in several more terabytes of space for disk drives that rarely approach their MTBF ratings these days. Long story short - backing up to remote disk drives is fast, fairly reliable, and much easier than backing up to tape if you're writing your own backup scripts rather than using some pointy clicky gui thingy for backups, but that doesn't mean backing up to disk is the right solution in all cases. For the Linux servers I have running near the Pacific coast, I use mtx, mt, dump, and restore from the command line to do manual tape backups, and script those commands into my cron driven backups. Except for the terminal I ssh into those servers with, the servers are firewalled off from contacting other machines, and the customer will not allow exceptions. so offsite rdist syncing or some other hard drive backup routine is not possible. Al Castanoli On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 17:05 -0600, Daniel J. Givens wrote: > Tapes are unreliable and unnecessarily expensive. An off-site VPN, disk to disk > backup would be a better solution. Backup the logs, document root, configs and > databases (if applicable) regularly. Better yet, store your configs in an SVN > repo and keep that backed up. Only do full system backups occasionally, and I > would say if you are using stock packages, then just backup your package list > and leave the distro provided stuff out of the backups all together. > > What I do for my clients who are limited in funds and storage space is backup > the critical areas regularly. The standard stuff that comes from the distro is > going to be able to be recovered with a quick re-install on new hardware. So in > case of a critical failure, you pop in your install disk to the new server, > install, update and then restore your configs, websites from SVN and databases. > > The other option is to use LVM with /var and /usr/local as separate logical > volumes. Back those up as snapshots, then once you have your freshly installed > system, you copy snapshots back to the newly created LVs on the new system. > > If you have more money to play with and two or more datacenters, go more > enterprise. Setup a two backup (file) servers in a failover cluster hooked to a > SAN. Have this setup at both datacenters with a VPN between the two. Do said > backups as I described before to both backup servers. You have high speed > recovery possible should you lose a server in the datacenter, or if you lose a > whole datacenter. If you lose both, you're screwed. > > I'm a little hurried in writing this as I'm about to run to the store with my > wife. If something doesn't make sense or needs more explanation, please let me > know and I'll address it. > > Best of luck! > > > > Hector Bojorquez wrote: > > Thanks so much for all this great information.. . > > I am looking at installing an older tape drive --- Sony AIT SDX-D500c > > > > I want to be able to backup to a tape nightly.... take the tape off site.. > > etc. > > Ideally I would like to be able to do an entire system restore with such a > > backup. From dacrummie at gmail.com Sat Mar 3 12:01:33 2007 From: dacrummie at gmail.com (Dale Crummie) Date: Sat Mar 3 12:01:56 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: <45E99EC0.2020108@gmail.com> References: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> <35905.24.160.132.44.1172933332.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> <45E99EC0.2020108@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 3/3/07, Bruce Dubbs wrote: > > Dale Crummie wrote: > > > openSUSE 10.2 (about 2 hrs) > > 1) OS and selected apps & packages > > wanted (reboot) > > -Updates > > 2) Download & install nVidea drivers (reboot) > > You don't need to reboot here, just go to the command line, install the > driver, and restart X. > > -- Bruce > -- I finally figured that one out! :-P _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) -- Dale Crummie The box said: "Requires Windows 95 or better." So I installed LINUX From hector.bojorquez at gmail.com Sat Mar 3 12:05:31 2007 From: hector.bojorquez at gmail.com (Hector Bojorquez) Date: Sat Mar 3 12:05:57 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] backup recommendations In-Reply-To: <1172944904.9825.12.camel@phrodo.texas.net> References: <2470980d0703021204j2a47f085if57252f50b6f5412@mail.gmail.com> <79ec289f0703021214o6f57abfawb13e4623e70b9589@mail.gmail.com> <1172868100.13986.22.camel@james-desktop> <79ec289f0703021326t54a08351q299c2288ac537e04@mail.gmail.com> <1172871569.13986.38.camel@james-desktop> <2470980d0703021425x70934660ub9b36d3f9886fe74@mail.gmail.com> <45E8ADD6.2090206@rugmonster.org> <1172944904.9825.12.camel@phrodo.texas.net> Message-ID: <2470980d0703031005ndb6fbefr45956e3c99315e70@mail.gmail.com> hmm.. yeah... have to agree I've seen some pretty immediate recovery with tapes... On 3/3/07, Al Castanoli wrote: > > You have a lot more faith in disk drives than I do. I do back up to > disk, but after restoring an entire datacenter from tape after Hurricane > Andrew over ten years ago, I still back up to tape. For examble: I'm > currently backing up around 50GB per night on just one of my servers to > tape, and intend to continue doing so, even though the machine I'm > backing up has a failover server that updates every five minutes. I've > had occasion to recover data off those tapes four or five times a month > to show what was on the server at an earlier date. I'm using a tape > changer and don't have to worry about overwriting older data when the > robot has removed a tape from the tape drive. To get the same > functionality from disks, I'd have to invest in several more terabytes > of space for disk drives that rarely approach their MTBF ratings these > days. > > Long story short - backing up to remote disk drives is fast, fairly > reliable, and much easier than backing up to tape if you're writing your > own backup scripts rather than using some pointy clicky gui thingy for > backups, but that doesn't mean backing up to disk is the right solution > in all cases. > > For the Linux servers I have running near the Pacific coast, I use mtx, > mt, dump, and restore from the command line to do manual tape backups, > and script those commands into my cron driven backups. Except for the > terminal I ssh into those servers with, the servers are firewalled off > from contacting other machines, and the customer will not allow > exceptions. so offsite rdist syncing or some other hard drive backup > routine is not possible. > > Al Castanoli > > On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 17:05 -0600, Daniel J. Givens wrote: > > Tapes are unreliable and unnecessarily expensive. An off-site VPN, disk > to disk > > backup would be a better solution. Backup the logs, document root, > configs and > > databases (if applicable) regularly. Better yet, store your configs in > an SVN > > repo and keep that backed up. Only do full system backups occasionally, > and I > > would say if you are using stock packages, then just backup your package > list > > and leave the distro provided stuff out of the backups all together. > > > > What I do for my clients who are limited in funds and storage space is > backup > > the critical areas regularly. The standard stuff that comes from the > distro is > > going to be able to be recovered with a quick re-install on new > hardware. So in > > case of a critical failure, you pop in your install disk to the new > server, > > install, update and then restore your configs, websites from SVN and > databases. > > > > The other option is to use LVM with /var and /usr/local as separate > logical > > volumes. Back those up as snapshots, then once you have your freshly > installed > > system, you copy snapshots back to the newly created LVs on the new > system. > > > > If you have more money to play with and two or more datacenters, go more > > enterprise. Setup a two backup (file) servers in a failover cluster > hooked to a > > SAN. Have this setup at both datacenters with a VPN between the two. Do > said > > backups as I described before to both backup servers. You have high > speed > > recovery possible should you lose a server in the datacenter, or if you > lose a > > whole datacenter. If you lose both, you're screwed. > > > > I'm a little hurried in writing this as I'm about to run to the store > with my > > wife. If something doesn't make sense or needs more explanation, please > let me > > know and I'll address it. > > > > Best of luck! > > > > > > > > Hector Bojorquez wrote: > > > Thanks so much for all this great information.. . > > > I am looking at installing an older tape drive --- Sony AIT SDX-D500c > > > > > > I want to be able to backup to a tape nightly.... take the tape off > site.. > > > etc. > > > Ideally I would like to be able to do an entire system restore with > such a > > > backup. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > From wmail at wricomp.com Sat Mar 3 12:17:08 2007 From: wmail at wricomp.com (Don Wright) Date: Sat Mar 3 12:17:31 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Computer Show In-Reply-To: <45E8DA64.20307@sbcglobal.net> References: <20070302185911.llb8kjvhcgscosw4@webmail.gvtc.com> <45E8DA64.20307@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 20:16:04 -0600, mike sullivan wrote: >I think it is this month, am I correct ? > >Mike WN5PMR Affirmative - Saturday March 10. Doors open 0900-1700, setup/teardown about 1/2 hour before & after. See the new look at www.pcshows.com for a discount coupon and show news, including drawings throughout the day. --Don -- Be well - or at least have interesting symptoms! From dubose at texas.net Sat Mar 3 12:53:11 2007 From: dubose at texas.net (Walt DuBose) Date: Sat Mar 3 12:53:46 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic) In-Reply-To: <5fd31f1f0703030912m6d561ad1l84065e2a3e245b88@mail.gmail.com> References: <200703022156.l22LuqXi029967@mx3.lsn.net> <5fd31f1f0703030912m6d561ad1l84065e2a3e245b88@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E9C417.4050300@texas.net> I can't help myself...so here goes. I have had the opportunity to talk with some of the greatist minds in the world. Men who have made major contributions in their academic areas of expertise and in areas where they were simply interested. A couple were in the U.S. and a couple in Europe and one from Asia. All spoke at least two languages and were active in art, literature (poetry mostly), or music or all of these. There are(were) NOT computer people and in fact only two used a personal computer. One finally moved to using an electric typewriter in 1995. Most wrote everything in and engineering/professor hand writing. Most had advanced degrees (more than one) in physics, math, music, art, astromery, chemistry, biology, etc. And then had interest in and were considered experts in other areas of science, math, the arts and humanities. To a person, they felt that the development of and use of Microsoft's software had held back the development of the sciencies, math, the arts and humanities. Note that they were not totally unaware of Microosofts legal problems and the problems they were causing. When asked them about Unix/Linux and after having to explain to them the Unix was developed by mainly by AT&T and Linux by one individual in concert with many others and about the open source movement, they all completely agreed that this confirmed their belief that the development of and use of Microsoft's software had held back the development of the sciencies, math, the arts and humanities and that had the human race adopted the open source path in the development of computer science that humanity would be much further ahead in solving some of the world's biggest problems and would have brought together nations more than any political venture could ever do. If I named two or three of these individuals, you would know them instantly and if you googled the others you would know of their works and status. Thus I am lead to believe that they are(were) correct in their assessment of the world's use of Microsoft. As a final note, all were what today we would consider religeous individuals and at least two were active in a local "House of Worship". I believe that they would all have enjoyed attending a SATLUG meeting or at least socializing with SATLUG members. We would have learned so much. Best Regards, Walt From daniel at rugmonster.org Sat Mar 3 15:32:17 2007 From: daniel at rugmonster.org (Daniel J. Givens) Date: Sat Mar 3 15:33:07 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] backup recommendations In-Reply-To: <1172944904.9825.12.camel@phrodo.texas.net> References: <2470980d0703021204j2a47f085if57252f50b6f5412@mail.gmail.com> <79ec289f0703021214o6f57abfawb13e4623e70b9589@mail.gmail.com> <1172868100.13986.22.camel@james-desktop> <79ec289f0703021326t54a08351q299c2288ac537e04@mail.gmail.com> <1172871569.13986.38.camel@james-desktop> <2470980d0703021425x70934660ub9b36d3f9886fe74@mail.gmail.com> <45E8ADD6.2090206@rugmonster.org> <1172944904.9825.12.camel@phrodo.texas.net> Message-ID: <45E9E961.7040107@rugmonster.org> I'm not saying tape backup is old and dying. Tape is good when you need to keep long term archives or you do not have the bandwidth/infrastructure to do remote backups, but still want some backups stored off site. As a whole though, I do not trust tapes as much as I trust redundant disks. Do I trust individual disks? Hardly. There have been several times at work that I've had to turn off all of our servers over the weekend while crews worked on the HVAC system. Come Monday morning, every single time, I lost one or two drives, but I have every server come up thanks to our servers being setup on RAID 5 arrays with a hot spare. Thanks to the hotswap capabilities of my servers, I was able to swap the drives and let the RAID rebuild itself while the system was online. Typical setup. My backup needs, both at work and at home, do not call for long term archiving. I understand that in some businesses, you have to maintain backups for legal reasons. I think tape is great for that, especially when you start to consider the electricity costs of the additional spinning drives required and the fact that larger storage costs exponentially more the higher you go. But if you don't need to maintain those long term backups, the advantages of tape start to wane. This probably goes without saying, but when you start to look at backup solutions, you have to look at the needs you must meet. If you write to a tape once and throw it in an off-site archive and NEED to keep those backups for months or years, then I think you've found the solution that works for you. If write to a tape and then write back over it again within a month, you can probably stand to ditch the tapes and go with a disk to disk solution. It all depends on your data retention needs. Al Castanoli wrote: > You have a lot more faith in disk drives than I do. I do back up to > disk, but after restoring an entire datacenter from tape after Hurricane > Andrew over ten years ago, I still back up to tape. For examble: I'm > currently backing up around 50GB per night on just one of my servers to > tape, and intend to continue doing so, even though the machine I'm > backing up has a failover server that updates every five minutes. I've > had occasion to recover data off those tapes four or five times a month > to show what was on the server at an earlier date. I'm using a tape > changer and don't have to worry about overwriting older data when the > robot has removed a tape from the tape drive. To get the same > functionality from disks, I'd have to invest in several more terabytes > of space for disk drives that rarely approach their MTBF ratings these > days. > > Long story short - backing up to remote disk drives is fast, fairly > reliable, and much easier than backing up to tape if you're writing your > own backup scripts rather than using some pointy clicky gui thingy for > backups, but that doesn't mean backing up to disk is the right solution > in all cases. > > For the Linux servers I have running near the Pacific coast, I use mtx, > mt, dump, and restore from the command line to do manual tape backups, > and script those commands into my cron driven backups. Except for the > terminal I ssh into those servers with, the servers are firewalled off > from contacting other machines, and the customer will not allow > exceptions. so offsite rdist syncing or so