[SATLUG] Pokes at Microsoft (off Topic)

Sun Mar 4 13:25:14 CST 2007

Points well taken Hector, and I really appreciate the devil's advocate.
Anyone who sits firm on one side of an argument without wanting a devil's
advocate is planning for failure.  Dialog is essential for any topic, and
here are my responses to your two points.

1.  Had M$ planned for this type of market to emerge and foreseen it, they
would have setup an infrastructure to take all of the business that it
generated.  Think 'geek squad' type service but M$ branded and globally
dispersed.  They had no idea what was going to happen, just like they have
no idea now what is going to happen, so my answer is no.  We owe them
nothing.  Things could have gone the other way with Apple winning the war,
and there would be an army of Apple junkies out there now.  It's just which
way the cards fell.  Furthermore, all of the jobs that you listed are a all
available for Linux 'people' at higher pay rates than their M$ counter
parts.  What we can actually thank M$ for is flooding the market with
'certificate educated' support individuals and actually driving down the
salaries and profitability of the industry.  I do not and will not ever get
any type of 'certification' (Linux M$ or otherwise).  As a matter of fact, I
have walked out several interviews when asked if I had any certifications.
If a company asks me that, I know for a fact that I do not need to work
there, especially if they ask that after seeing my undergrad and grad
degrees.

2.  I agree with you to an extent that Google is not 100% ready for the
challenge that it is waging against M$, but at the same time, are any of M$
products 100% ready when they deploy?  I think not.  I can say that Google
has a strong chance at taking a significant part of the market.  As far as
the remote hosting and security thing.  A court can subpoena documents from
you directly, not just from a company that hosts your documents.  You have
no more legal basis than Google does to refuse or challenge them.  As a
matter of fact, Google probably has more legal clout than you or I do, not
to mention more money and reputation at stake if they bend.  I trust Google
to make the right decision either way.  Furthermore, the only people that
would fear having their documents or files handed over to a court are ones
that have something to hide.  I am not saying that we should just blindly
give up our right to privacy or security, but to take the position that
allowing Google to host documents is essentially signing over your rights to
someone is a pretty hollow argument.  I have many of my personal and
business documents hosted with Google's services, and if they are ever
subpoenaed I really wouldn't care.  Everything in there is legal and
straight, and I have nothing to fear.  I'm sure that Google expects that of
its customers as well.

Overall, there are good points on both sides of any argument, but I feel
that the M$ vs the rest of the world one is a lost one.  To me, it all comes
down to one thing....open document formats.  Once the business world changes
and forces every thing to be in an open format, M$ will fall quickly and
decisively from its perch.  More than trying to convert people from one OS
to another, we should be pushing to change the very core of business - the
data and the formats that it is saved in.

Ernest

On 3/4/07, Hector Bojorquez <hector.bojorquez at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> hmm.... We're all in agreement.. MS is wicked...
> But I'm willing to play devil's advocate.
> 1.  Two companies popularized the PC-- Mac and Microsoft...
> Microsoft won.... through crook and hook...and suddenly the need for more
> tech folks to work shot up...
> Microsoft made it possible for the average user to get online... and thus
> give many of us jobs (web app designers, web server specialists, network
> specialists...etc..)
> Don't we owe something to Microsoft for the explosion... granted we all
> know
> that without *nixes NONE of it would've been possible...
> But be honest... Back in 95....Linux simply was not ready for the average
> user....
>
> 2. Is Google really ready?
> Google apps are awesome.. but do ANY of you trust your documents to be
> hosted online.... .which by the way can be subpoenaed  at any moment
> BECAUSE
> they are online.
> Is the basic model really feasible for a business.? At least right
> now...Not
> yet.... even the enterprise version is all hosted by Google.. AND unless
> they make the same service available through an appliance that can be
> bought
> (which should be their next step)... I can't see most businesses being so
> trusting...
> I certainly would not trust any hosted service with personal documents.
>
> Just some thoughts there
>
>
>
>
> On 3/3/07, Ernest de Leon <dryicezero at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Now you're talkin....South Park is one of my favorite TV shows...and
> just
> > to
> > add my .02 USD, Bill Gates is by no means a technical person much less a
> > technical genius, he is simply a man who is good at marketing and
> > business.
> > That said, he is also a very good person with a good heart who
> tirelessly
> > pursues philanthropic efforts.  I admire him for that.  I really dislike
> > when people take personal potshots at the man or when they sum up
> > 'Microsoft' as Bill Gates.  We all know that Ballmer has been the puppet
> > master for a while now, and he has actually let the company slide
> downward
> > in market share on all fronts since he took over.  Now Google has M$ in
> > it's
> > crosshairs, and I can't even put my happiness into words.  Microsoft
> > should
> > take heed from the US auto industry: for so many years they fed the
> public
> > crap with poorly designed, hardly functional, overpriced and low quality
> > products.  All the while, there were people who barely graduated high
> > school
> > (if that) making more money than me while assembling these pieces of
> crap.
> > Luckily, it all came crumbling down (with a little help from the
> Japanese
> > auto makers), and there is once again competition in the marketplace.
> > Microsoft has opened the door, and to think that no one will step up and
> > take something from them is both ignorant and arrogant.  I hope Google
> and
> > others show M$ what complacency around a barely mediocre product can do
> to
> > your bottom line.
> >
> > I'm in this field for the long haul, it will be interesting to see who
> > remains on top when all of the dust has settled.  My guess: Google by
> one
> > percent marker share.  No one should have so much of the market that
> they
> > are afforded the luxury of backing off innovation.
> >
> > Ernest
> >
> > On 3/3/07, James Tiner <jtiner at satx.rr.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > You know, I just couldn't see this thread any longer without
> mentioning
> > > that last night they showed "South Park - Bigger, Longer, and Uncut"
> on
> > > Comedy Central last night. It was uncensored and funny. One of the
> best
> > > parts is where the general is trying to give a briefing for the war
> with
> > > Canada and the computer locks up. he calls for bill gates and says
> > > something along the lines of "I thought you said windows 98 was going
> to
> > > be more stable, faster and have better access to the internet." When
> BG
> > > begins to reply, the general shoots him.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 2007-03-03 at 12:53 -0600, Walt DuBose wrote:
> > > > I can't help myself...so here goes.
> > > >
> > > > I have had the opportunity to talk with some of the greatist minds
> in
> > > the world.
> > > >    Men who have made major contributions in their academic areas of
> > > expertise
> > > > and in areas where they were simply interested.  A couple were in
> the
> > > U.S. and a
> > > > couple in Europe and one from Asia.  All spoke at least two
> languages
> > > and were
> > > > active in art, literature (poetry mostly), or music or all of these.
> > > >
> > > > There are(were) NOT computer people and in fact only two used a
> > personal
> > > > computer.  One finally moved to using an electric typewriter in
> > > 1995.  Most
> > > > wrote everything in and engineering/professor hand writing.  Most
> had
> > > advanced
> > > > degrees (more than one) in physics, math, music, art, astromery,
> > > chemistry,
> > > > biology, etc.  And then had interest in and were considered experts
> in
> > > other
> > > > areas of science, math, the arts and humanities.
> > > >
> > > > To a person, they felt that the development of and use of
> Microsoft's
> > > software
> > > > had held back the development of the sciencies, math, the arts and
> > > humanities.
> > > >
> > > > Note that they were not totally unaware of Microosofts legal
> problems
> > > and the
> > > > problems they were causing.
> > > >
> > > > When asked them about Unix/Linux and after having to explain to them
> > the
> > > Unix
> > > > was developed by mainly by AT&T and Linux by one individual in
> concert
> > > with many
> > > > others and about the open source movement, they all completely
> agreed
> > > that this
> > > > confirmed their belief that the development of and use of
> Microsoft's
> > > software
> > > > had held back the development of the sciencies, math, the arts and
> > > humanities
> > > > and that had the human race adopted the open source path in the
> > > development of
> > > > computer science that humanity would be much further ahead in
> solving
> > > some of
> > > > the world's biggest problems and would have brought together nations
> > > more than
> > > > any political venture could ever do.
> > > >
> > > > If I named two or three of these individuals, you would know them
> > > instantly and
> > > > if you googled the others you would know of their works and status.
> > > >
> > > > Thus I am lead to believe that they are(were) correct in their
> > > assessment of the
> > > > world's use of Microsoft.
> > > >
> > > > As a final note, all were what today we would consider religeous
> > > individuals and
> > > > at least two were active in a local "House of Worship".
> > > >
> > > > I believe that they would all have enjoyed attending a SATLUG
> meeting
> > or
> > > at
> > > > least socializing with SATLUG members.  We would have learned so
> much.
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Walt
> > >
> > > --
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > # Ernest De Leon
> >
> > "If Microsoft is 'flexible' it explains how their head got where it is."
> > --
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-- 
# Ernest De Leon

"If Microsoft is 'flexible' it explains how their head got where it is."