From gwillden at gmail.com Tue May 1 08:29:25 2007 From: gwillden at gmail.com (Greg Willden) Date: Tue May 1 08:29:49 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] outlook client ? In-Reply-To: <4636B887.2070505@satx.rr.com> References: <46360DEA.10807@accd.edu> <4636B887.2070505@satx.rr.com> Message-ID: <345e55a50705010629k7276af89sf8497ee024670b45@mail.gmail.com> We have Exchange with the Outlook Web interface here at work. The web interface works in Firefox but it is not the same interface you get when you use IE. I just use Thunderbird and deal with not accessing the shared calendar in the same way as everyone else. Greg On 4/30/07, Alan L. Lesmerises wrote: > My wife used to work for SAISD, & they used the web access Outlook. Based on what I saw, I would think it should work for most any operating system since it's being run through a web browser. > > Glenn F. Boswell wrote: > > May 14 accd is moving to MS Exchange server and Microsoft Outlook Web > > Access for all students and staff with the staff having access also from > > Outlook Desktop. Since they will have the shared calendar available and > > most likely mandatory for faculty , is there an solution for Linux > > users. I'm aware of evolution but since outlook was never a product > > I used I never researched it. What Linux products should I begin > > researching. I really don't want to have to bring up my virtual XP os to > > get accd mail daily but for four years I can fake it with vmware. > > > > Books, articles, web page recommendations appreciated. > > > > Thanks, Boz > > // > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > -- To know recursion, you must first know recursion. From siffland at nerdshack.com Tue May 1 10:18:37 2007 From: siffland at nerdshack.com (Sean I) Date: Tue May 1 10:18:59 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] System Inventory In-Reply-To: <99af515b0704300803y1ac7e17ascae55e79d7e16668@mail.gmail.com> References: <1ea252fb0704300744r3a36dcafi9f8aba60c2b016@mail.gmail.com> <99af515b0704300803y1ac7e17ascae55e79d7e16668@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3ae131d00705010818w435dae5eg2efb9a47761fa72c@mail.gmail.com> I have used cfg2html, it works on HP-UX and Linux, not sure about Solaris or aix (says aix is supported) http://www.cfg2html.com/ we ran it and just presented the html pages on a share for the sys admin's, not sure if it all what you are looking for but it polls a ton of information, plus it is free. Sean From siffland at nerdshack.com Tue May 1 13:33:23 2007 From: siffland at nerdshack.com (Sean I) Date: Tue May 1 13:33:45 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] RHEL4 License Key Message-ID: <3ae131d00705011133j3ad23c30s78aa7c0a6065e4b1@mail.gmail.com> I need a bit of help, I am deploying RHEL ES Version4 on 8 identical Blade servers. They want me to install on one, lock it down and get it ready and then use mondorescue to clone it on the other 7 blades (pretty much just change name and IP the rest of the systems remain identical). All that is easy except I do not know how to change the license (I do not usually use RHEL). I have all 8 keys that came with the software (8 copies of RHEL ES 4) but is there a redhat tool that allows you to change it so they can all connect to the rhn? Thanks Sean From chmims at gmail.com Tue May 1 13:36:38 2007 From: chmims at gmail.com (Charles Mims) Date: Tue May 1 13:37:01 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] outlook client ? In-Reply-To: <4636B887.2070505@satx.rr.com> References: <46360DEA.10807@accd.edu> <4636B887.2070505@satx.rr.com> Message-ID: <9e4edf580705011136s6c6c4f34v1c3237d345228df8@mail.gmail.com> I have used just such. Web Outlook will work with most any browser. I have personally used it with Linux and Firefox, and OS X and Safari. I was able with Citrix to connect directly to the mail server and by pass the browser. On 4/30/07, Alan L. Lesmerises wrote: > > My wife used to work for SAISD, & they used the web access Outlook. Based > on what I saw, I would think it should work for most any operating system > since it's being run through a web browser. > > Glenn F. Boswell wrote: > > May 14 accd is moving to MS Exchange server and Microsoft Outlook Web > > Access for all students and staff with the staff having access also from > > Outlook Desktop. Since they will have the shared calendar available and > > most likely mandatory for faculty , is there an solution for Linux > > users. I'm aware of evolution but since outlook was never a product > > I used I never researched it. What Linux products should I begin > > researching. I really don't want to have to bring up my virtual XP os to > > get accd mail daily but for four years I can fake it with vmware. > > > > Books, articles, web page recommendations appreciated. > > > > Thanks, Boz > > // > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > From tameika.reed at rackspace.com Tue May 1 13:42:30 2007 From: tameika.reed at rackspace.com (Tameika Reed) Date: Tue May 1 13:43:11 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] RHEL4 License Key In-Reply-To: <3ae131d00705011133j3ad23c30s78aa7c0a6065e4b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <3ae131d00705011133j3ad23c30s78aa7c0a6065e4b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <240FE6D667B3AC4AB1C05C4CDB64DEB2020D42D7@SAT4MX03.RACKSPACE.CORP> Actually to change the license information is you can run something similar to the following: Activate your system with the following command: rhnreg_ks --activationkey=key information here If your system has already been registered with another key, or via Red Hat's RHN server, you may have to add the --force flag to the command: rhnreg_ks --force --activationkey=key information here I guess you could create a script out this if necessary. Use ssh and get the hostname, run the command, and logout. Hope this helps, Tameika -----Original Message----- From: satlug-bounces@satlug.org [mailto:satlug-bounces@satlug.org] On Behalf Of Sean I Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:33 PM To: satlug@satlug.org Subject: [SATLUG] RHEL4 License Key I need a bit of help, I am deploying RHEL ES Version4 on 8 identical Blade servers. They want me to install on one, lock it down and get it ready and then use mondorescue to clone it on the other 7 blades (pretty much just change name and IP the rest of the systems remain identical). All that is easy except I do not know how to change the license (I do not usually use RHEL). I have all 8 keys that came with the software (8 copies of RHEL ES 4) but is there a redhat tool that allows you to change it so they can all connect to the rhn? Thanks Sean -- _______________________________________________ SATLUG mailing list SATLUG@satlug.org http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message (including any attached or embedded documents) is intended for the exclusive and confidential use of the individual or entity to which this message is addressed, and unless otherwise expressly indicated, is confidential and privileged information of Rackspace Managed Hosting. Any dissemination, distribution or copying of the enclosed material is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail at abuse@rackspace.com, and delete the original message. Your cooperation is appreciated. From bruce.dubbs at gmail.com Tue May 1 17:23:59 2007 From: bruce.dubbs at gmail.com (Bruce Dubbs) Date: Tue May 1 17:24:21 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Patents Message-ID: <4637BDFF.8040207@gmail.com> I'm a little surprised that no one has brought up the topic of patents today or yesterday. For those that don't know, there was a *huge* decision by the Supreme Court yesterday that has tremendous impact of software and "business methods". The decision was "KSR INTERNATIONAL CO., PETITIONER v. TELEFLEX INC. Et Al." and had to do with pedals that adjust in autos. The court basically said in a unanimous opinion that "obvious" things can't be patented. http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/06pdf/04-1350.pdf Well that should be obvious too, but the patent appeals court had broken the system about 18 years ago and it is finally getting fixed in a fit of common sense. Some of my favorite quotes: "The obviousness analysis cannot be confined by a formalistic conception of the words teaching, suggestion, and motivation, or by overemphasis on the importance of published articles and the explicit content of issued patents." "One of the ways in which a patent?s subject matter can be proved obvious is by noting that there existed at the time of invention a known problem for which there was an obvious solution encompassed by the patent?s claims." -- Well Duh. "For over a half century, the Court has held that a 'patent for a combination which only unites old elements with no change in their respective functions . . . obviously withdraws what is already known into the field of its monopoly and diminishes the resources available to skillful men.' This is a principal reason for declining to allow patents for what is obvious." "When a work is available in one field of endeavor, design incentives and other market forces can prompt variations of it, either in the same field or a different one. If a person of ordinary skill can implement a predictable variation, ?103 likely bars its patentability. For the same reason, if a technique has been used to improve one device, and a person of ordinary skill in the art would recognize that it would improve similar devices in the same way, using the technique is obvious unless its actual application is beyond his or her skill." "As our precedents make clear, however, the analysis need not seek out precise teachings directed to the specific subject matter of the challenged claim, for a court can take account of the inferences and creative steps that a person of ordinary skill in the art would employ." "Granting patent protection to advances that would occur in the ordinary course without real innovation retards progress and may, in the case of patents combining previously known elements, deprive prior inventions of their value or utility." "Common sense teaches, however, that familiar items may have obvious uses beyond their primary purposes, and in many cases a person of ordinary skill will be able to fit the teachings of multiple patents together like pieces of a puzzle." "When there is a design need or market pressure to solve a problem and there are a finite number of identified, predictable solutions, a person of ordinary skill has good reason to pursue the known options within his or her technical grasp. If this leads to the anticipated success, it is likely the product not of innovation but of ordinary skill and common sense. In that instance the fact that a combination was obvious to try might show that it was obvious under ?103." "We build and create by bringing to the tangible and palpable reality around us new works based on instinct, simple logic, ordinary inferences, extraordinary ideas, and sometimes even genius. These advances, once part of our shared knowledge, define a new threshold from which innovation starts once more. And as progress beginning from higher levels of achievement is expected in the normal course, the results of ordinary innovation are not the subject of exclusive rights under the patent laws. Were it otherwise patents might stifle, rather than promote, the progress of useful arts. See U. S. Const., Art. I, ?8, cl. 8." Wow. What a set of statements. An attack of good judgement. I think we will see a dramatic slowdown of 'obvious' patents now. The Amazon 1-click patent is dead. -- Bruce From alesmerises at satx.rr.com Tue May 1 18:20:57 2007 From: alesmerises at satx.rr.com (Alan L. Lesmerises) Date: Tue May 1 18:21:10 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Dell announcement Message-ID: <4637CB59.8020207@satx.rr.com> In case you hadn't heard yet, Dell apparently made an official announcement that they would be offering Ubuntu-equipped desktops & laptops. See related articles at: http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&ncl=1115910035 From alesmerises at satx.rr.com Tue May 1 18:30:19 2007 From: alesmerises at satx.rr.com (Alan L. Lesmerises) Date: Tue May 1 18:30:30 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Another example of skewed MS thinking Message-ID: <4637CD8B.4060001@satx.rr.com> You might want to check out this article about security issues in Vista and Microsoft's responses: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2114587,00.asp?kc=PCRSS03129TX1K0000625 One point I thought was very interesting is that an independent anti-virus testing group compared 17 different software packages, and they said: "Alone among the products tested, Microsoft's Windows Live OneCare did not qualify for certification; in fact, it did not even reach the levels required for participation in future tests." If Microsoft can't even build a decent dedicated anti-virus package for the operating system they developed, even when you're paying extra for it, how can anyone expect to be adequately protected through the patches & updates they're providing for free? From tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org Tue May 1 22:12:47 2007 From: tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org (tom weeks) Date: Tue May 1 23:13:05 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Patents In-Reply-To: <4637BDFF.8040207@gmail.com> References: <4637BDFF.8040207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200705012212.47806.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org> On Tuesday 01 May 2007 17:23, Bruce Dubbs wrote: > I think we will see a dramatic slowdown of 'obvious' patents now. The > Amazon 1-click patent is dead. Cool.. MS ammo seriously drained too. Tweeks From good_bye300 at yahoo.com Wed May 2 07:19:56 2007 From: good_bye300 at yahoo.com (Chris Lemire) Date: Wed May 2 07:20:21 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Dell announcement In-Reply-To: <4637CB59.8020207@satx.rr.com> Message-ID: <807957.36056.qm@web38108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm not surprised sense Michael Dell uses Ubuntu 7.04 on his laptop. "Alan L. Lesmerises" wrote: In case you hadn't heard yet, Dell apparently made an official announcement that they would be offering Ubuntu-equipped desktops & laptops. See related articles at: http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&ncl=1115910035 -- _______________________________________________ SATLUG mailing list SATLUG@satlug.org http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. From scarolan at gmail.com Wed May 2 08:00:09 2007 From: scarolan at gmail.com (Sean Carolan) Date: Wed May 2 08:00:36 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Dell announcement In-Reply-To: <807957.36056.qm@web38108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4637CB59.8020207@satx.rr.com> <807957.36056.qm@web38108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <277020fc0705020600x76c6139cu9b4d185ee602dc91@mail.gmail.com> This is fantastic news. I am going to recommend friends and family to purchase Dell computers with Ubuntu pre-loaded. Hopefully Dell can help Linux gain enough market share to force software vendors to take notice. Yesterday I installed Feisty Fawn on an older Dell Pentium 4 box with an Intel on-board graphics card, and everything works, even the compiz eye-candy, without any extra tweaking. On 5/2/07, Chris Lemire wrote: > I'm not surprised sense Michael Dell uses Ubuntu 7.04 on his laptop. > > "Alan L. Lesmerises" wrote: In case you hadn't heard yet, Dell apparently made an official announcement that they would be offering Ubuntu-equipped desktops & laptops. > > See related articles at: > > http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&ncl=1115910035 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > From twistedpickles at gmail.com Wed May 2 12:01:23 2007 From: twistedpickles at gmail.com (twistedpickles) Date: Wed May 2 11:59:50 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Dell announcement Message-ID: <4638c36c.3fd04bb8.5a48.3f82@mx.google.com> The only thing I have ever had to tweak on a dell when running linux is wifi. ::twistedpickles :: : From jtiner at satx.rr.com Wed May 2 11:25:39 2007 From: jtiner at satx.rr.com (James Tiner) Date: Wed May 2 12:10:12 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Bruce Bowen Message-ID: <1178123139.7281.4.camel@james-desktop> OK guys, this is off topic, but i'm sure that many of you remember my email pronouncing that i was no longer employed by Computer NERDZ! and some of you responded with your own horror stories of that particular company. Just so you know that the universe is sometimes fair in its karma department, here's a link to why Bruce Bowen is suing NERDZ! for what boils down to incompetence. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0501071bowen1.html From kingttx at tomslinux.homelinux.org Wed May 2 12:49:58 2007 From: kingttx at tomslinux.homelinux.org (Thomas King) Date: Wed May 2 12:50:27 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Bruce Bowen In-Reply-To: <1178123139.7281.4.camel@james-desktop> References: <1178123139.7281.4.camel@james-desktop> Message-ID: <3090.192.62.88.55.1178128198.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> > OK guys, this is off topic, but i'm sure that many of you remember my > email pronouncing that i was no longer employed by Computer NERDZ! and > some of you responded with your own horror stories of that particular > company. Just so you know that the universe is sometimes fair in its > karma department, here's a link to why Bruce Bowen is suing NERDZ! for > what boils down to incompetence. > > http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0501071bowen1.html Holy cow!! From jeremymann at gmail.com Wed May 2 12:52:04 2007 From: jeremymann at gmail.com (Jeremy Mann) Date: Wed May 2 12:52:30 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Bruce Bowen In-Reply-To: <1178123139.7281.4.camel@james-desktop> References: <1178123139.7281.4.camel@james-desktop> Message-ID: <79ec289f0705021052x29f40b66j51efbfa9b6ffdbd3@mail.gmail.com> I heard about this this morning on WOAI. He's sueing for $2 million because they resold his hard drive containing personal and financial information. On 5/2/07, James Tiner wrote: > OK guys, this is off topic, but i'm sure that many of you remember my > email pronouncing that i was no longer employed by Computer NERDZ! and > some of you responded with your own horror stories of that particular > company. Just so you know that the universe is sometimes fair in its > karma department, here's a link to why Bruce Bowen is suing NERDZ! for > what boils down to incompetence. > > http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0501071bowen1.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > From scs at worldlinkisp.com Wed May 2 12:55:15 2007 From: scs at worldlinkisp.com (scs@worldlinkisp.com) Date: Wed May 2 12:55:43 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Bruce Bowen Message-ID: <1d1c5adbde0b4071a9f1ee43ad42a016.scs@worldlinkisp.com> Hope Bowen prevails, what goes around comes around (sometimes). Incompetence, yes, but I'd also call it criminal, pretty sure Computer Nerdz received compensation for the alleged defective hard drive from the manufacturer. Very interesting to me, I know the defendant (L. Robin), a neighbor that used to be my paperboy, then Taco Bell, and then Computer Nerdz. From jtiner at satx.rr.com Wed May 2 19:29:09 2007 From: jtiner at satx.rr.com (James Tiner) Date: Wed May 2 19:29:26 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Bruce Bowen In-Reply-To: <1d1c5adbde0b4071a9f1ee43ad42a016.scs@worldlinkisp.com> References: <1d1c5adbde0b4071a9f1ee43ad42a016.scs@worldlinkisp.com> Message-ID: <1178152149.8745.7.camel@james-desktop> well, they didn't receive compensation from the manufacturer, that I know. This all occured while I was working there and the story as I understand it was that they made a backup to another (new) drive while working on it. they then put the drive they used for backup back on the shelf and then sold it to the other lady. these kinds of things happen when you put a drug addict in charge of the bench (speed) and hire people into the corporate office who are drug addicts (heroine) and the owner and VP of the company smoke pot (in the case of the owner, L. Robin, who does so every day at about ten A.M. and most likely a second and third time during the day). On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 13:55 -0400, scs@worldlinkisp.com wrote: > Hope Bowen prevails, what goes around comes around > (sometimes). > > Incompetence, yes, but I'd also call it criminal, > pretty sure Computer Nerdz received compensation for > the alleged defective hard drive from the manufacturer. > > Very interesting to me, I know the defendant (L. > Robin), a neighbor that used to be my paperboy, then > Taco Bell, and then Computer Nerdz. > > > > > > From daniel at rugmonster.org Wed May 2 20:34:24 2007 From: daniel at rugmonster.org (Daniel J. Givens) Date: Wed May 2 20:35:11 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Bruce Bowen In-Reply-To: <1178152149.8745.7.camel@james-desktop> References: <1d1c5adbde0b4071a9f1ee43ad42a016.scs@worldlinkisp.com> <1178152149.8745.7.camel@james-desktop> Message-ID: <46393C20.9080304@rugmonster.org> James Tiner wrote: > these kinds of things happen when you put a drug addict in charge of the > bench (speed) and hire people into the corporate office who are drug > addicts (heroine) and the owner and VP of the company smoke pot (in the > case of the owner, L. Robin, who does so every day at about ten A.M. and > most likely a second and third time during the day). Wow... you might want to be careful saying things such as this in a public forum else you could end up the defendant in a civil case of your own. See slander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel) From satlugacct at jchampion.com Wed May 2 22:22:06 2007 From: satlugacct at jchampion.com (John Champion) Date: Wed May 2 22:26:13 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Bruce Bowen In-Reply-To: <46393C20.9080304@rugmonster.org> Message-ID: <003a01c78d32$4cf58af0$6402a8c0@Blackhole4> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: satlug-bounces@satlug.org [mailto:satlug-bounces@satlug.org] On Behalf Of Daniel J. Givens >>Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:34 PM >>To: The San Antonio Linux User's Group Mailing List >>Subject: Re: [SATLUG] Bruce Bowen >> >>James Tiner wrote: >>> these kinds of things happen when you put a drug addict in charge of >>> the bench (speed) and hire people into the corporate office who are >>> drug addicts (heroine) and the owner and VP of the company smoke pot >>> (in the case of the owner, L. Robin, who does so every day at about >>> ten A.M. and most likely a second and third time during the day). >> >>Wow... you might want to be careful saying things such as this in a public forum else you could end up the defendant in a civil case of your own. See >> >>slander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel) Absolutely. Remember that these posts are visible via a Google search. You know I used to work with a hitch mechanic many years ago who couldn't do jack unless he was baked. He was so good wasted that senior management looked the otherway while he took smoke breaks in an adjacent facility. But that fact aside...go to Google and type in your email name. You'll be shocked at what you can find. From leon36 at gmail.com Wed May 2 23:00:22 2007 From: leon36 at gmail.com (Samuel Leon) Date: Wed May 2 23:00:43 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Bruce Bowen In-Reply-To: <003a01c78d32$4cf58af0$6402a8c0@Blackhole4> References: <003a01c78d32$4cf58af0$6402a8c0@Blackhole4> Message-ID: <46395E56.9000400@gmail.com> John Champion wrote: > > > Absolutely. Remember that these posts are visible via a Google search. You > know I used to work with a hitch mechanic many years ago who couldn't do > jack unless he was baked. He was so good wasted that senior management > looked the otherway while he took smoke breaks in an adjacent facility. But > that fact aside...go to Google and type in your email name. You'll be > shocked at what you can find. > > A guy I knew once told me that he knew a sky crane operator that had really shaky hands. I don't know if it was Parkinson's or what. But apparently a couple of beers would fix him right up. What a life.... Sam From jtiner at satx.rr.com Wed May 2 23:03:09 2007 From: jtiner at satx.rr.com (James Tiner) Date: Wed May 2 23:03:25 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Bruce Bowen In-Reply-To: <003a01c78d32$4cf58af0$6402a8c0@Blackhole4> References: <003a01c78d32$4cf58af0$6402a8c0@Blackhole4> Message-ID: <1178164989.8745.12.camel@james-desktop> I agree except that it requires my statements to be false, which they aren't and that is easily proven. However, I must say that it was in bad taste that I wrote that post. For that I appologize and hope all the members of the list forgive me. On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 22:22 -0500, John Champion wrote: > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: satlug-bounces@satlug.org [mailto:satlug-bounces@satlug.org] On > Behalf Of Daniel J. Givens > >>Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:34 PM > >>To: The San Antonio Linux User's Group Mailing List > >>Subject: Re: [SATLUG] Bruce Bowen > >> > >>James Tiner wrote: > >>> these kinds of things happen when you put a drug addict in charge of > >>> the bench (speed) and hire people into the corporate office who are > >>> drug addicts (heroine) and the owner and VP of the company smoke pot > >>> (in the case of the owner, L. Robin, who does so every day at about > >>> ten A.M. and most likely a second and third time during the day). > >> > >>Wow... you might want to be careful saying things such as this in a public > forum else you could end up the defendant in a civil case of your own. See > >> > >>slander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel) > > Absolutely. Remember that these posts are visible via a Google search. You > know I used to work with a hitch mechanic many years ago who couldn't do > jack unless he was baked. He was so good wasted that senior management > looked the otherway while he took smoke breaks in an adjacent facility. But > that fact aside...go to Google and type in your email name. You'll be > shocked at what you can find. > From masterr at gmail.com Wed May 2 23:58:40 2007 From: masterr at gmail.com (Jonathan Hull) Date: Wed May 2 23:59:05 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Dell announcement In-Reply-To: <277020fc0705020600x76c6139cu9b4d185ee602dc91@mail.gmail.com> References: <4637CB59.8020207@satx.rr.com> <807957.36056.qm@web38108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <277020fc0705020600x76c6139cu9b4d185ee602dc91@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <14842c410705022158l78810cg55a6ad9a19cf4baa@mail.gmail.com> I installed Feisty during the Beta on both my laptop and desktop. Very nice indeed. It is a very mature distro. The driver and codec installers are very nice features indeed and this, IMO, is probably the main reason for Dell choosing Ubuntu. (I had to restore my backup image of Edgy on my laptop, however, as the driver for my card reader is broken in fiesty for now. I'll re-upgrade after a fix is pushed through) On 5/2/07, Sean Carolan wrote: > > This is fantastic news. I am going to recommend friends and family to > purchase Dell computers with Ubuntu pre-loaded. Hopefully Dell can > help Linux gain enough market share to force software vendors to take > notice. > > Yesterday I installed Feisty Fawn on an older Dell Pentium 4 box with > an Intel on-board graphics card, and everything works, even the compiz > eye-candy, without any extra tweaking. > > > > > On 5/2/07, Chris Lemire wrote: > > I'm not surprised sense Michael Dell uses Ubuntu 7.04 on his laptop. > > > > "Alan L. Lesmerises" wrote: In case you hadn't > heard yet, Dell apparently made an official announcement that they would be > offering Ubuntu-equipped desktops & laptops. > > > > See related articles at: > > > > http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&ncl=1115910035 > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > SATLUG mailing list > > SATLUG@satlug.org > > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > SATLUG mailing list > > SATLUG@satlug.org > > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > From hector.bojorquez at gmail.com Thu May 3 06:47:45 2007 From: hector.bojorquez at gmail.com (Hector Bojorquez) Date: Thu May 3 06:48:10 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Patents In-Reply-To: <200705012212.47806.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org> References: <4637BDFF.8040207@gmail.com> <200705012212.47806.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org> Message-ID: <2470980d0705030447j37116b66s8d528a615fab62b2@mail.gmail.com> just a question though... Was the mouse ever obvious...until it was created? Were GUIs? We're quick to jump on this because of MS... but ... it's worth more consideration... Certainly no the first wave created by Alan Kay, Doug Engelbart and their kind at PARC...they were so UN-obvious that when scores of CEOS were shown the stuff...they walked away completely unimpressed (their secretary wives on the other hand were totally impressed (this happened in the early 70s)---had they listened to their secretary wives--hah! we'd all be bitching about XEROX--- or maybe not... Smalltalk is still a very interesting cool little language compared to C++ or Java. Neither Alan Kay nor Doug Engelbart have received the accolades or money they deserve for what they have contributed... they continue to fall into obscurity...] Hah..any of you guys ever heard of J.C.R. Licklidder...google him.. Will this decision (I don't know..but it's worth thinking about) further turn the anonymous genius into an indistiguinshable footnote? Sometimes we need to look at things beyond our MS hating goggles On 5/1/07, tom weeks wrote: > On Tuesday 01 May 2007 17:23, Bruce Dubbs wrote: > > I think we will see a dramatic slowdown of 'obvious' patents now. The > > Amazon 1-click patent is dead. > > Cool.. MS ammo seriously drained too. > > Tweeks > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > From bruce.dubbs at gmail.com Thu May 3 13:35:48 2007 From: bruce.dubbs at gmail.com (Bruce Dubbs) Date: Thu May 3 13:36:13 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Patents In-Reply-To: <2470980d0705030447j37116b66s8d528a615fab62b2@mail.gmail.com> References: <4637BDFF.8040207@gmail.com> <200705012212.47806.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org> <2470980d0705030447j37116b66s8d528a615fab62b2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <463A2B84.1010701@gmail.com> Hector Bojorquez wrote: > just a question though... > Was the mouse ever obvious...until it was created? Were GUIs? > We're quick to jump on this because of MS... but ... it's worth more > consideration... Lets talk about the mouse. It was first designed in 1963(!) by Doug Englebart. By the way, this was quite a bit pre-PARC. Obviously any patent (I don't think there was one) wold have expired around 1980 or so. He was a researcher. Once the idea of a mouse with a button attached is invented, is it a new idea worth patenting to add a second button? If we have a trackball and a mouse, is it innovative to put a scroll wheel on a Mouse? How about a slider? How about combining a track ball and a keyboard? Under the overturned ideas of the patent appeals court, they would be patentable, but they seem pretty obvious combinations of prior technology. The point is that combining known techniques that someone "skilled in the art" would utilize to solve a problem should not be allowed: "These advances, once part of our shared knowledge, define a new threshold from which innovation starts once more. And as progress beginning from higher levels of achievement is expected in the normal course, the results of ordinary innovation are not the subject of exclusive rights under the patent laws. Were it otherwise patents might stifle, rather than promote, the progress of useful arts. See U. S. Const., Art. I, ?8, cl. 8." -- Bruce From siffland at nerdshack.com Thu May 3 13:57:51 2007 From: siffland at nerdshack.com (Sean I) Date: Thu May 3 13:58:16 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] OT--DRM sux Message-ID: <3ae131d00705031157t6b2ad4e6v46fa5a634ea443a2@mail.gmail.com> Yeah I might get in trouble for posting a pic if it goes though but this one is worth it. From bartonekdragracing at yahoo.com Thu May 3 14:05:56 2007 From: bartonekdragracing at yahoo.com (Alex Bartonek) Date: Thu May 3 14:06:22 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] OT--DRM sux In-Reply-To: <3ae131d00705031157t6b2ad4e6v46fa5a634ea443a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <448614.13424.qm@web55615.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I dont want to say the N00bie word...so I wont.. attach a url to the actual image, host it on imageshack or something.. lol --- Sean I wrote: > Yeah I might get in trouble for posting a pic if it > goes though but this one > is worth it. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to > unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From daniel at rugmonster.org Thu May 3 14:35:42 2007 From: daniel at rugmonster.org (Daniel J. Givens) Date: Thu May 3 14:36:05 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] OT--DRM sux In-Reply-To: <3ae131d00705031157t6b2ad4e6v46fa5a634ea443a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <3ae131d00705031157t6b2ad4e6v46fa5a634ea443a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <509e3616b6439bb94d0e2c5815080571@rugmonster.org> On Thu, 3 May 2007 13:57:51 -0500, "Sean I" wrote: > I can't read your gmail. :P From bruce.dubbs at gmail.com Fri May 4 04:28:57 2007 From: bruce.dubbs at gmail.com (Bruce Dubbs) Date: Fri May 4 04:29:20 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] More spam Message-ID: <463AFCD9.8010006@gmail.com> I was just checking the SATLUG site and found that the topics page was spammed again. I removed it and have instituted a new procedure so only members who have a SATLUG mailman email address/password can add new topics. Anyone can still vote for a topic. -- Bruce From hector.bojorquez at gmail.com Fri May 4 07:06:05 2007 From: hector.bojorquez at gmail.com (Hector Bojorquez) Date: Fri May 4 07:06:31 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Patents In-Reply-To: <463A2B84.1010701@gmail.com> References: <4637BDFF.8040207@gmail.com> <200705012212.47806.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org> <2470980d0705030447j37116b66s8d528a615fab62b2@mail.gmail.com> <463A2B84.1010701@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2470980d0705040506q7e68973cs2f7e42c576bd7917@mail.gmail.com> Doug Engelbart is one of my personal heroes (more than Stallman...who I admire greatly but who borders on zealotry-- he wouldn't allow videos of himself to be posted on youtube because they use a proprietary technology..flash--- sorry that's just dumb....further spreading his message is far more important than protesting the use of .swfs ... I can't respect that) I've posted this before..but the power of Engelbart's vision still amazes me http://sloan.stanford.edu/mousesite/1968Demo.html I agree .. the Amazon one-click... not worthy of a patent... My dad has a "Hector one-match approach" to lighting barbecue fires--- As much as it amazes friends and family...a patent... hmm.... no.. As far as extra buttons on the mouse. (which by the way Engelbart had foreseen with an extra 3 button keyboard), they were designed in reponse to or in conjuction with software.... Who really uses 3 button mice anymore? They were , if I remember correctly (I may not), heavily used in CADs. So you're correct... I'm not sure that a slider or an extra button is worth patenting any more than an extra button on my ipod... BUT... if the innovation fundamentally changes the nature of the device...like an optical mouse, OR a pointing device that is not driven by the hand but by eye movements, or by brain waves... then those new "mice" are worthy of a patent. or if the innovation changes or adds to the functionality of the device far beyond the original intent--- such as a mouse that pumps caffeine DIRECTLY into my system through my skin... well that certainly deserves a pattern (as well as my undying loyalty) I haven't decided what I think of this particular decision... but I've seen enough protection of big-business by this court not to wonder what precedents they may be setting in place that may screw over the little guy. As far as Engelbart.. .I keep wondering who out there is doing that kind of lonely visionary work... neither Engelbart nor Licklidder were mentioned in Hackers or in Fire in the Valley--- because neither really fit into the scope of those "pop" personnas--- Engelbart is a researcher/designer/visionary Hell he came up with the idea for linked documents (AND came up with a working version) LONG before the development of http. Engelbart truly trusts human potential... which is what makes him much more interesting in my book... he foresaw the power of people working together through technology and trusted that people would use it for a greater good... The only person ( I know of) who is doing interesting work like that is Ray Kurzweil--- although he is much more of an entrepeneur than he is a researcher... On 5/3/07, Bruce Dubbs wrote: > Hector Bojorquez wrote: > > just a question though... > > Was the mouse ever obvious...until it was created? Were GUIs? > > We're quick to jump on this because of MS... but ... it's worth more > > consideration... > > Lets talk about the mouse. It was first designed in 1963(!) by Doug > Englebart. By the way, this was quite a bit pre-PARC. Obviously any > patent (I don't think there was one) wold have expired around 1980 or > so. He was a researcher. Once the idea of a mouse with a button > attached is invented, is it a new idea worth patenting to add a second > button? If we have a trackball and a mouse, is it innovative to put a > scroll wheel on a Mouse? How about a slider? > > How about combining a track ball and a keyboard? > > Under the overturned ideas of the patent appeals court, they would be > patentable, but they seem pretty obvious combinations of prior technology. > > The point is that combining known techniques that someone "skilled in > the art" would utilize to solve a problem should not be allowed: > > "These advances, once part of our shared knowledge, define a new > threshold from > which innovation starts once more. And as progress beginning from higher > levels of achievement is expected in the normal course, the results of > ordinary innovation are not the subject of exclusive rights under the > patent laws. Were it otherwise patents might stifle, rather than > promote, the progress of useful arts. See U. S. Const., Art. I, ?8, cl. 8." > > -- Bruce > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > From emcm at stic.net Fri May 4 11:29:43 2007 From: emcm at stic.net (Terry) Date: Fri May 4 11:30:33 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Anyone have a wood lathe I can come over and use? References: <200704180147.29429.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org> Message-ID: <008301c78e69$78994790$32c95a42@TMDELLXP> Probably too late and would take considerable effort to get to it ( a "Shopsmith") in the back of my garage. Terry McFadin Pho. 210-340-4056 Fax. 210-340-4087 emcm@stic.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "tom weeks" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 1:47 AM Subject: [SATLUG] Anyone have a wood lathe I can come over and use? > I need to lathe a soft wood (bass wood) nose code for a rocket.. > > Anyone have a wood lathe I can come over to use? > Email me off list.. Thanx.. > > Tweeks > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > From bruce.dubbs at gmail.com Fri May 4 12:03:45 2007 From: bruce.dubbs at gmail.com (Bruce Dubbs) Date: Fri May 4 12:04:07 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Patents In-Reply-To: <2470980d0705040506q7e68973cs2f7e42c576bd7917@mail.gmail.com> References: <4637BDFF.8040207@gmail.com> <200705012212.47806.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org> <2470980d0705030447j37116b66s8d528a615fab62b2@mail.gmail.com> <463A2B84.1010701@gmail.com> <2470980d0705040506q7e68973cs2f7e42c576bd7917@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <463B6771.8090402@gmail.com> Hector Bojorquez wrote: > I've posted this before..but the power of Engelbart's vision still > amazes me > http://sloan.stanford.edu/mousesite/1968Demo.html I agree. I first saw this in 1991. > Who really uses 3 button mice anymore? I do. The middle button is very important for pasting in the command line environment. I ordered mice without scroll wheels and with three buttons explicitly for the Linux/Unix classes at SAC. IMO, if you are doing a lot of coding or other command line operations, the scroll wheel gets in the way. > BUT... if the innovation fundamentally changes the nature of the > device...like an optical mouse, OR a pointing device that is not > driven by the hand but by eye movements, or by brain waves... then > those new "mice" are worthy of a patent. Perhaps. It depends if the technology is new or not. If it exists in another context, then applying it to a mouse may or may not be obvious. > I haven't decided what I think of this particular decision... > but I've seen enough protection of big-business by this court not to > wonder what precedents they may be setting in place that may screw > over the little guy. It is not screwing over the little guy. It is liberating him. The ones who can afford the costs of a patent are the big guys. They have been patenting minor tweaks that are obvious to extend the monopoly protection of a patent for a long time. > As far as Engelbart.. .I keep wondering who out there is doing that > kind of lonely visionary work... neither Engelbart nor Licklidder were > mentioned in Hackers or in Fire in the Valley--- because neither > really fit into the scope of those "pop" personnas--- Engelbart is a > researcher/designer/visionary > Hell he came up with the idea for linked documents (AND came up with a > working version) LONG before the development of http. Ah, no. The idea was from Vannevar Bush in Alantic Monthly in 1945! http://www.ibiblio.org/pjones/bush/bush.html Now that was visionary! I do think that Englebart did do the first implementation. Overall, I think we are in much more agreement than disagreement. The patent system was envisioned by the writers of the Constitution as something to reward the hard work of developing new processes and techniques in a non-trivial manner. As the Supreme Court said, they did this "To promote the progress of science and useful arts". Allowing trivial patents hinders progress rather than promoting it. There will always be edge cases about what is sufficiently innovative, but that is what courts are for. Unfortunately, the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit (the one that oversees patents), went off track and was not applying what most people would consider common sense. The Supreme Court said that they must consider all inputs when deciding obviousness and not a rigid, narrow rule they came up with to make their job easier. -- Bruce From hector.bojorquez at gmail.com Fri May 4 12:09:13 2007 From: hector.bojorquez at gmail.com (Hector Bojorquez) Date: Fri May 4 12:09:35 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Patents In-Reply-To: <463B6771.8090402@gmail.com> References: <4637BDFF.8040207@gmail.com> <200705012212.47806.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org> <2470980d0705030447j37116b66s8d528a615fab62b2@mail.gmail.com> <463A2B84.1010701@gmail.com> <2470980d0705040506q7e68973cs2f7e42c576bd7917@mail.gmail.com> <463B6771.8090402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2470980d0705041009m9753796ga7a9049f7334f801@mail.gmail.com> Doh..Vannevar Bush... this is true.. Librarians (of whom I know plenty) always remind me of him.... On 5/4/07, Bruce Dubbs wrote: > Hector Bojorquez wrote: > > > I've posted this before..but the power of Engelbart's vision still > > amazes me > > http://sloan.stanford.edu/mousesite/1968Demo.html > > I agree. I first saw this in 1991. > > > Who really uses 3 button mice anymore? > > I do. The middle button is very important for pasting in the command > line environment. I ordered mice without scroll wheels and with three > buttons explicitly for the Linux/Unix classes at SAC. IMO, if you are > doing a lot of coding or other command line operations, the scroll wheel > gets in the way. > > > BUT... if the innovation fundamentally changes the nature of the > > device...like an optical mouse, OR a pointing device that is not > > driven by the hand but by eye movements, or by brain waves... then > > those new "mice" are worthy of a patent. > > Perhaps. It depends if the technology is new or not. If it exists in > another context, then applying it to a mouse may or may not be obvious. > > > I haven't decided what I think of this particular decision... > > but I've seen enough protection of big-business by this court not to > > wonder what precedents they may be setting in place that may screw > > over the little guy. > > It is not screwing over the little guy. It is liberating him. The ones > who can afford the costs of a patent are the big guys. They have been > patenting minor tweaks that are obvious to extend the monopoly > protection of a patent for a long time. > > > As far as Engelbart.. .I keep wondering who out there is doing that > > kind of lonely visionary work... neither Engelbart nor Licklidder were > > mentioned in Hackers or in Fire in the Valley--- because neither > > really fit into the scope of those "pop" personnas--- Engelbart is a > > researcher/designer/visionary > > Hell he came up with the idea for linked documents (AND came up with a > > working version) LONG before the development of http. > > Ah, no. The idea was from Vannevar Bush in Alantic Monthly in 1945! > > http://www.ibiblio.org/pjones/bush/bush.html > > Now that was visionary! I do think that Englebart did do the first > implementation. > > Overall, I think we are in much more agreement than disagreement. The > patent system was envisioned by the writers of the Constitution as > something to reward the hard work of developing new processes and > techniques in a non-trivial manner. As the Supreme Court said, they did > this "To promote the progress of science and useful arts". Allowing > trivial patents hinders progress rather than promoting it. > > There will always be edge cases about what is sufficiently innovative, > but that is what courts are for. Unfortunately, the Court of Appeals > for the Federal Circuit (the one that oversees patents), went off track > and was not applying what most people would consider common sense. The > Supreme Court said that they must consider all inputs when deciding > obviousness and not a rigid, narrow rule they came up with to make their > job easier. > > -- Bruce > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > From h_oudini at hotmail.com Fri May 4 12:14:29 2007 From: h_oudini at hotmail.com (Kase Saylor) Date: Fri May 4 12:14:57 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Patents Message-ID: Bruce Dubbs wrote: >I do. The middle button is very important for pasting in the command >line environment. I ordered mice without scroll wheels and with three >buttons explicitly for the Linux/Unix classes at SAC. IMO, if you are >doing a lot of coding or other command line operations, the scroll wheel >gets in the way. > > I, too, am a huge "fan" of the middle button, but you don't to eschew the scroll wheel! All the mice I have used integrate the scroll wheel and a middle button. In other words, I can scroll with the wheel and then press down on the wheel to get a middle button. -Kase _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 From bruce.dubbs at gmail.com Fri May 4 12:37:00 2007 From: bruce.dubbs at gmail.com (Bruce Dubbs) Date: Fri May 4 12:37:22 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Patents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <463B6F3C.7090602@gmail.com> Kase Saylor wrote: > I, too, am a huge "fan" of the middle button, but you don't to eschew > the scroll wheel! All the mice I have used integrate the scroll wheel > and a middle button. True, but I don't like like the 'feel'. Personal preference. Finding a 3-button mouse without a scroll wheel in a store is hard, but its wasy on the net. And they're cheap $2 to $4 is common. -- Bruce From sean.crandall at ieee.org Fri May 4 13:44:29 2007 From: sean.crandall at ieee.org (Sean Crandall) Date: Fri May 4 13:44:54 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Patents In-Reply-To: <463B6771.8090402@gmail.com> References: <4637BDFF.8040207@gmail.com> <200705012212.47806.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org> <2470980d0705030447j37116b66s8d528a615fab62b2@mail.gmail.com> <463A2B84.1010701@gmail.com> <2470980d0705040506q7e68973cs2f7e42c576bd7917@mail.gmail.com> <463B6771.8090402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <436b9fd50705041144v6657f5d7qec2ebac259b70eaa@mail.gmail.com> On 5/4/07, Bruce Dubbs wrote: > > > BUT... if the innovation fundamentally changes the nature of the > > device...like an optical mouse, OR a pointing device that is not > > driven by the hand but by eye movements, or by brain waves... then > > those new "mice" are worthy of a patent. > > Perhaps. It depends if the technology is new or not. If it exists in > another context, then applying it to a mouse may or may not be obvious. > > I haven't decided what I think of this particular decision... > > but I've seen enough protection of big-business by this court not to > > wonder what precedents they may be setting in place that may screw > > over the little guy. > > It is not screwing over the little guy. It is liberating him. The ones > who can afford the costs of a patent are the big guys. They have been > patenting minor tweaks that are obvious to extend the monopoly > protection of a patent for a long time. I mostly just lurk on this list because there are other people on here much smarter than I (particularly in the context of Linux), but I do have a couple of things to throw into this discussion. As to obviousness, one of the major problems this decision addresses is so-called "combination" patents. The simple example is the pencil and eraser. Given the existence of a pencil and eraser, is is a patentable "invention" to attach an eraser to a pencil, assuming it has never been done before? The Supreme Court used to say "No," because this accomplishes no new or better result. Both implements do exactly what they did before---they're just spatially closer to each other. Then there was some discussion in the Federal Circuit about this creating a new criterion for patentability contrary to the statutory language, and the CAFC abandoned the combination concept for the "suggestion" test at issue in Teleflex. This paved the way for lots of obvious patents, which in turn contributed to the problem of patent "trolls" (I recently wrote a Law Review comment on this topic that now has a zero probability of getting published thanks to this decision). Whatever your political opinion of this Court, I can opine without reservation that this was the right thing. In this case, almost everybody's interests were aligned. Bad patents are bad for business, whether you are Microsoft or Joe's Local Computer Shop (incidentally, the Court decided another patent case the same day, and Microsoft won that one, but it was on a totally unrelated issue dealing with exports and it was against AT&T---Kase, if you're still reading this thread, I think it was on that speech stuff you used for your Senior Design project). The only people who benefit from bad patents are patent trolls. This was a huge setback for them. > Overall, I think we are in much more agreement than disagreement. The > patent system was envisioned by the writers of the Constitution as > something to reward the hard work of developing new processes and > techniques in a non-trivial manner. As the Supreme Court said, they did > this "To promote the progress of science and useful arts". Allowing > trivial patents hinders progress rather than promoting it. I will take issue with one thing that seems like a technicality, but it is a common and fundamental misunderstanding. Patents are not intended to be a retroactive reward. That would imply that they are somehow a natural right. They are a prospective motivation. We grant them not because you deserve it naturally, but because there may be some innovation that you can dream up that we may not get unless we entice you with a monopoly that would otherwise be very undesirable. You can be very clever and work really hard, but you still cannot (and should not) get a patent if what you come up with is something we already had access to. That's why a patent can be defeated by showing, for example, that some guy in Italy published your invention the day before you invented it in an obscure Italian trade journal that you've never seen and couldn't read. -- Sean Crandall Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number 'e'. From luis at luisgarza.com Fri May 4 14:38:26 2007 From: luis at luisgarza.com (Luis Garza) Date: Fri May 4 14:46:23 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Patents In-Reply-To: <463B6771.8090402@gmail.com> References: <4637BDFF.8040207@gmail.com> <200705012212.47806.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org> <2470980d0705030447j37116b66s8d528a615fab62b2@mail.gmail.com> <463A2B84.1010701@gmail.com> <2470980d0705040506q7e68973cs2f7e42c576bd7917@mail.gmail.com> <463B6771.8090402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1902.192.168.2.1.1178307506.squirrel@luisgarza.com> I remember working for ATT in 1989 and at the New Jersey facility, I saw their first mice attached to terminals they were about to throw away. I was amazed at the size and weight of these monster terminals with these ugly 3 button mice. They looked like half of a tennis ball with 3 keys from an old keyboard attached. They had the post and springs and stood high. These old ATT terminals were from the 1970's for use with the XEROX systems. I felt honored and sad that the same time; helping them load these windowing forefathers to the scrap heap. I can actually say that I held one in my hand. Thank you XEROX - what a great idea. Luis Garza www.luisgarza.com luis@luisgarza.com lrgarza2000@yahoo.com From luis at luisgarza.com Fri May 4 14:55:17 2007 From: luis at luisgarza.com (Luis Garza) Date: Fri May 4 15:03:12 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Austin Meeting - Metasploit; May 10th Message-ID: <2048.192.168.2.1.1178308517.squirrel@luisgarza.com> Hello everyone, The Austin Linux users group is having their meeting at the same time as ours. After much consideration, I have decided to attend their meeting on Metasploit. As my professors at SAC know, I have written a paper on the use of Metasploit. It is a great tool for checking for exploits on your system. I feel that many hackers may use this tool to gain access to your windows pc and install irc bots on them. They turn these pc's into zombies to launch spam emails. I feel that it is good to learn the tools of the hackers in order to learn how to prevent them from hacking your system. I apologize for not attending our own meeting and hope to either get their speaker to present at our Linux users group or I will present on what I have seen. If anyone else is interested in attending their meeting, check out the link: http://austinlug.org/node/175 Luis Garza www.luisgarza.com luis@luisgarza.com lrgarza2000@yahoo.com From scarolan at gmail.com Fri May 4 16:11:42 2007 From: scarolan at gmail.com (Sean Carolan) Date: Fri May 4 16:12:05 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] SSH Forwarding Problem Message-ID: <277020fc0705041411ubdd3120k709dd17b698fa709@mail.gmail.com> Maybe someone can help me figure this out. I have three machines, let's call them apple, banana and cherry. Apple is my workstation, banana is a box that I can SSH to, and cherry is only available from banana. If I run these commands everything works fine: $ ssh -L 2022:cherry:22 banana $ ssh localhost -p 2022 And I get immediately connected to cherry with no problem. When I try to put these settings into my ~/.ssh/config file I get this error on the client: ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host And this error on the server: channel 47: open failed: administratively prohibited: open failed Here is a copy of my ~/.ssh/config file: **************** Host banana Hostname banana.full.domain.name LocalForward 21031 cherry.full.domain.name:22 Host cherry Hostname localhost Port 21031 HostKeyAlias cherry *************** What's really frustrating is that the config file works fine for some hosts, but not for others. There are about six problem hosts on my network that are not allowing the local port forwarding. Any suggestions??? From scs at worldlinkisp.com Fri May 4 17:04:08 2007 From: scs at worldlinkisp.com (scs@worldlinkisp.com) Date: Fri May 4 17:04:35 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Austin Meeting - Metasploit; May 10th Message-ID: Subject : RE: [SATLUG] Austin Meeting - Metasploit; May 10th I have decided to attend their meeting on Metasploit. As my professors at SAC know, I have written a paper on the use of Metasploit. < snip > or I will present on what I have seen. ------------------------------ A video camera would be nice to take along and tape it. From brad at shub-internet.org Fri May 4 17:26:42 2007 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri May 4 17:28:43 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Austin Meeting - Metasploit; May 10th In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/4/07, scs@worldlinkisp.com wrote: > A video camera would be nice to take along and tape it. We'll have to check with the presenter to see if that's okay. If so, I'm planning on being there, and I should be able to bring along my video camera, and I would hope that others could do the same. Once we've got the video captured, it would be easy enough to sit down with a video editing program (I've got iMovie HD) and edit that, then upload to something like YouTube. But this all depends on how the speaker feels about that. -- Brad Knowles , Consultant & Author LinkedIn Profile: Slides from Invited Talks: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 From good_bye300 at yahoo.com Fri May 4 17:40:49 2007 From: good_bye300 at yahoo.com (Chris Lemire) Date: Fri May 4 17:41:11 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Austin Meeting - Metasploit; May 10th In-Reply-To: <2048.192.168.2.1.1178308517.squirrel@luisgarza.com> Message-ID: <850809.95697.qm@web38109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I would love to go, but do all of the local lug meetings have to be during the week of final exams for college students? Couldn't the meetings be postponed for a week? I think so of the professors at San Antonio College who come to the SATLUG meetings would rather come after the week of final exams too. Luis Garza wrote: Hello everyone, The Austin Linux users group is having their meeting at the same time as ours. After much consideration, I have decided to attend their meeting on Metasploit. As my professors at SAC know, I have written a paper on the use of Metasploit. It is a great tool for checking for exploits on your system. I feel that many hackers may use this tool to gain access to your windows pc and install irc bots on them. They turn these pc's into zombies to launch spam emails. I feel that it is good to learn the tools of the hackers in order to learn how to prevent them from hacking your system. I apologize for not attending our own meeting and hope to either get their speaker to present at our Linux users group or I will present on what I have seen. If anyone else is interested in attending their meeting, check out the link: http://austinlug.org/node/175 Luis Garza www.luisgarza.com luis@luisgarza.com lrgarza2000@yahoo.com -- _______________________________________________ SATLUG mailing list SATLUG@satlug.org http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. From brad at shub-internet.org Fri May 4 18:10:28 2007 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri May 4 18:21:08 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Austin Meeting - Metasploit; May 10th In-Reply-To: <850809.95697.qm@web38109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <850809.95697.qm@web38109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 5/4/07, Chris Lemire wrote: > I would love to go, but do all of the local lug meetings have to be during > the week of final exams for college students? Couldn't the meetings be > postponed for a week? I think so of the professors at San Antonio College > who come to the SATLUG meetings would rather come after the week of final > exams too. Most user groups have a standard schedule for all their meetings (like "third thursday of the month"), and that's true for ALG, SATLUG, and every other Linux or or *nix-related group I've ever seen. Sometimes meetings happen that are in conflict with other things, like holidays, or in your case final exams. -- Brad Knowles , Consultant & Author LinkedIn Profile: Slides from Invited Talks: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 From luis at luisgarza.com Fri May 4 19:58:26 2007 From: luis at luisgarza.com (Luis Garza) Date: Fri May 4 20:06:28 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Austin Meeting - Metasploit; May 10th In-Reply-To: References: <850809.95697.qm@web38109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2800.192.168.2.1.1178326706.squirrel@luisgarza.com> Those interested in going from San Antonio to Austin, please let me know. Maybe we can arrange a car caravan to Austin. Please let me know. Brad Knowles wrote: > On 5/4/07, Chris Lemire wrote: > >> I would love to go, but do all of the local lug meetings have to be >> during >> the week of final exams for college students? Couldn't the meetings be >> postponed for a week? I think so of the professors at San Antonio >> College >> who come to the SATLUG meetings would rather come after the week of >> final >> exams too. > > Most user groups have a standard schedule for all their meetings > (like "third thursday of the month"), and that's true for ALG, > SATLUG, and every other Linux or or *nix-related group I've ever seen. > > Sometimes meetings happen that are in conflict with other things, > like holidays, or in your case final exams. > > -- > Brad Knowles , Consultant & Author > LinkedIn Profile: > Slides from Invited Talks: > > 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > Luis Garza www.luisgarza.com luis@luisgarza.com lrgarza2000@yahoo.com From good_bye300 at yahoo.com Fri May 4 20:53:01 2007 From: good_bye300 at yahoo.com (Chris Lemire) Date: Fri May 4 20:53:22 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Austin Meeting - Metasploit; May 10th In-Reply-To: <2800.192.168.2.1.1178326706.squirrel@luisgarza.com> Message-ID: <20070505015301.72453.qmail@web38104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Is anyone interested in doing it a week later? I know all the students would be out of school and finished with their final exams. Luis Garza wrote: Those interested in going from San Antonio to Austin, please let me know. Maybe we can arrange a car caravan to Austin. Please let me know. Brad Knowles wrote: > On 5/4/07, Chris Lemire wrote: > >> I would love to go, but do all of the local lug meetings have to be >> during >> the week of final exams for college students? Couldn't the meetings be >> postponed for a week? I think so of the professors at San Antonio >> College >> who come to the SATLUG meetings would rather come after the week of >> final >> exams too. > > Most user groups have a standard schedule for all their meetings > (like "third thursday of the month"), and that's true for ALG, > SATLUG, and every other Linux or or *nix-related group I've ever seen. > > Sometimes meetings happen that are in conflict with other things, > like holidays, or in your case final exams. > > -- > Brad Knowles , Consultant & Author > LinkedIn Profile: > Slides from Invited Talks: > > 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > Luis Garza www.luisgarza.com luis@luisgarza.com lrgarza2000@yahoo.com -- _______________________________________________ SATLUG mailing list SATLUG@satlug.org http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. From tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org Fri May 4 20:21:28 2007 From: tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org (tom weeks) Date: Fri May 4 21:21:33 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Patents In-Reply-To: <463B6771.8090402@gmail.com> References: <4637BDFF.8040207@gmail.com> <2470980d0705040506q7e68973cs2f7e42c576bd7917@mail.gmail.com> <463B6771.8090402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200705042021.28678.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org> On Friday 04 May 2007 12:03, Bruce Dubbs wrote: > Hector Bojorquez wrote: > > I've posted this before..but the power of Engelbart's vision still > > amazes me > > http://sloan.stanford.edu/mousesite/1968Demo.html > > I agree. I first saw this in 1991. > > > Who really uses 3 button mice anymore? > > I do. The middle button is very important for pasting in the command > line environment. Ditto... err.. :) I really like the old marbleman with middle button. Tweeks From leon36 at gmail.com Fri May 4 21:39:24 2007 From: leon36 at gmail.com (Samuel Leon) Date: Fri May 4 21:39:41 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Austin Meeting - Metasploit; May 10th In-Reply-To: <2800.192.168.2.1.1178326706.squirrel@luisgarza.com> References: <850809.95697.qm@web38109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2800.192.168.2.1.1178326706.squirrel@luisgarza.com> Message-ID: <463BEE5C.8000403@gmail.com> Luis Garza wrote: > Those interested in going from San Antonio to Austin, please let me know. > Maybe we can arrange a car caravan to Austin. Please let me know. > > Brad Knowles wrote: > > I had never even heard of metasploit before. Sure, count me in! Sam From dkowis at shlrm.org Fri May 4 22:59:06 2007 From: dkowis at shlrm.org (David Kowis) Date: Fri May 4 22:59:31 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] SSH Forwarding Problem In-Reply-To: <277020fc0705041411ubdd3120k709dd17b698fa709@mail.gmail.com> References: <277020fc0705041411ubdd3120k709dd17b698fa709@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <463C010A.5020502@shlrm.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Sean Carolan wrote: > Maybe someone can help me figure this out. I have three machines, > let's call them apple, banana and cherry. Apple is my workstation, > banana is a box that I can SSH to, and cherry is only available from > banana. > > If I run these commands everything works fine: > > $ ssh -L 2022:cherry:22 banana > $ ssh localhost -p 2022 > > And I get immediately connected to cherry with no problem. > > When I try to put these settings into my ~/.ssh/config file I get this > error on the client: > ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host > > And this error on the server: > channel 47: open failed: administratively prohibited: open failed > > Here is a copy of my ~/.ssh/config file: > > **************** > Host banana > Hostname banana.full.domain.name > LocalForward 21031 cherry.full.domain.name:22 > > Host cherry > Hostname localhost > Port 21031 > HostKeyAlias cherry > *************** > > What's really frustrating is that the config file works fine for some > hosts, but not for others. There are about six problem hosts on my > network that are not allowing the local port forwarding. Any > suggestions??? Check the obvious? Permissions on the .ssh dir? Permissions on the files? Those usually get me :/ Ownership matters too. I didn't even know you could do things like you're talking about ;) - -- David Kowis www.sourcemage.org SourceMage GNU/Linux Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. - Robert Heinlein -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQGVAwUBRjwBCsnf+vRw63ObAQpQAgwAhsKJuS7sklWxZUgVm2P/mkNpw2EYQyBd 7dlokfDvAT9tDQdLRZYRBhlgAgReeswwl516YFWgES7LaY3yMUs+dap1Z7Umn2+K NB5wt0I3pzUarFRrF45Syt+EbovzXt1ehQyE+jG21EKhMxPXVUfOY0pR/UNSNK64 s89hcTTcesxXUlIqItFzK1uHkh5lRIkoIHq3r7op0nd/q12+lm7NIb5Ckgw6snKu 1b4k5BHEs8sIYXeNY+fqrSkof4yV8HumgVvbc+SM7Zx47ZKURLpG0OCoK67bFQOJ nsA9L4AfJ0tTmohLA/9RNzZ+0iyNd5N9qoltvuU1aYfgA7UfioVZ2JoqydzeO94x IV87iNt+1YMheFEQXuYXBGLTPWE5bHKd6ZzkQumKshcwzCWZn1ytzFo0ZrJhXFWW 3QUdV4QwtJ7mJlExAV8oUqDxOQZ+W1VkxoiNOcBPa4EVBy2Up5CGoGokPQ2FDT02 ZryAES6QZoKXbgi+891D7+TVOD4OkxqY =SsYF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From brad at shub-internet.org Fri May 4 23:47:23 2007 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sat May 5 00:02:51 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Austin Meeting - Metasploit; May 10th In-Reply-To: <20070505015301.72453.qmail@web38104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20070505015301.72453.qmail@web38104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 5/4/07, Chris Lemire wrote: > Is anyone interested in doing it a week later? I know all the students > would be out of school and finished with their final exams. Talk to the speaker. ALG meets every week, and from what I've seen they don't tend to have any kind of official presentation most weeks, so I imagine they might be willing to host the same person doing the same talk for two weeks in a row. This talk seems to me to be something that the CACTUS folks might also be interested in, so I'll certainly talk to the speaker about coming to do the same talk for us. The speaker might also be willing to come down to San Antonio to do the same talk again. But I think that this has been pretty widely disseminated in the community, and I'd be surprised if the ALG folks or the speaker were willing to actually postpone the talk from the meeting on the 10th to the following week. However, it doesn't hurt to ask. -- Brad Knowles , Consultant & Author LinkedIn Profile: Slides from Invited Talks: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 From esanchezvela at yahoo.com Sat May 5 05:23:36 2007 From: esanchezvela at yahoo.com (Enrique Sanchez Vela) Date: Sat May 5 05:24:02 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] SSH Forwarding Problem In-Reply-To: <277020fc0705041411ubdd3120k709dd17b698fa709@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <758935.97804.qm@web30304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Sean Carolan wrote: > > What's really frustrating is that the config file > works fine for some > hosts, but not for others. There are about six > problem hosts on my > network that are not allowing the local port > forwarding. Any > suggestions??? > -- Hi, I just tried your configuration and worked fine for me, actually, I was able to replicate the same error when the target host was unresolvable to the bridge box. regards, enrique. -------------------------------------- "What you have been obliged to discover by yourself leaves a path in your mind which you can use again when the need arises." --G. C. Lichtenberg http://themathcircle.org/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From scarolan at gmail.com Sat May 5 06:51:20 2007 From: scarolan at gmail.com (Sean Carolan) Date: Sat May 5 06:51:42 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] SSH Forwarding Problem In-Reply-To: <758935.97804.qm@web30304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <277020fc0705041411ubdd3120k709dd17b698fa709@mail.gmail.com> <758935.97804.qm@web30304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <277020fc0705050451s25fcb429l80c3c08d8b3fd3ec@mail.gmail.com> > I just tried your configuration and worked fine for > me, actually, I was able to replicate the same error > when the target host was unresolvable to the bridge > box. I wonder why would it work from the command line, but not if the exact same settings are put into an .ssh/config file? FYI, in my situation the target host is resolvable from the bridge box. From afcasta at texas.net Sat May 5 09:07:22 2007 From: afcasta at texas.net (Al Castanoli) Date: Sat May 5 09:03:56 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Bruce Bowen In-Reply-To: <46395E56.9000400@gmail.com> References: <003a01c78d32$4cf58af0$6402a8c0@Blackhole4> <46395E56.9000400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1178374042.5053.1.camel@phrodo.texas.net> On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 23:00 -0500, Samuel Leon wrote: > John Champion wrote: > > Absolutely. Remember that these posts are visible via a Google search. You > > know I used to work with a hitch mechanic many years ago who couldn't do > > jack unless he was baked. He was so good wasted that senior management > > looked the otherway while he took smoke breaks in an adjacent facility. But > > that fact aside...go to Google and type in your email name. You'll be > > shocked at what you can find. > A guy I knew once told me that he knew a sky crane operator that had > really shaky hands. I don't know if it was Parkinson's or what. But > apparently a couple of beers would fix him right up. > What a life.... That's great - now we can stop worrying about drunk airline pilots who are just steadying their hands. Al Castanoli From sexton at idxwebservices.com Sat May 5 09:24:36 2007 From: sexton at idxwebservices.com (Art Sexton) Date: Sat May 5 09:23:54 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Free case and mb... Message-ID: <463C93A4.8060008@idxwebservices.com> I have a free tall tower case w/ power supply and motherboard with AMD2800 (engineering sample chip). Wife says it must go so I am trying here first. The last time things stayed around for weeks so we need to meet this weekend if you are claiming this. First email gets it. It works fine but has been sitting for the past year since I upgraded. Art Sexton sexton@idxwebservices.com From dmyhand at suddenlink.net Sat May 5 09:25:17 2007 From: dmyhand at suddenlink.net (Dennis Myhand) Date: Sat May 5 09:25:42 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Bruce Bowen In-Reply-To: <1178374042.5053.1.camel@phrodo.texas.net> References: <003a01c78d32$4cf58af0$6402a8c0@Blackhole4> <46395E56.9000400@gmail.com> <1178374042.5053.1.camel@phrodo.texas.net> Message-ID: <463C93CD.9050502@suddenlink.net> Al Castanoli wrote: > On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 23:00 -0500, Samuel Leon wrote: > A guy I knew once told me that he knew a sky crane operator that had > >> really shaky hands. I don't know if it was Parkinson's or what. But >> apparently a couple of beers would fix him right up. >> What a life.... >> > > That's great - now we can stop worrying about drunk airline pilots who > are just steadying their hands. > > Al Castanoli > > I have been watching this thread with some interest. I have heard these stories about people who work better drunk or stoned since I was very small mainly due to the fact my father was an undiagnosed alcoholic. My own experience is that it is a load of crap. In one day while I was in the military 30 years ago, an acid freak and a drunk together put six men from my unit in the hospital. I was one of the injured. My ankle still hurts when the weather changes. If you are going to get wasted and do something stupid, lock yourself in the garage, get just as drunk or stoned as you want, make sure you are ALL alone, and play with a 16p nail gun. If someone operated a piece of equipment better when they were messed up than when straight, they didn't need to be using that machine in EITHER condition. M2C--YMMV, Dennis Myhand From mkr777 at gmail.com Sat May 5 09:36:30 2007 From: mkr777 at gmail.com (M K Ramadoss) Date: Sat May 5 09:36:55 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Free case and mb... In-Reply-To: <463C93A4.8060008@idxwebservices.com> References: <463C93A4.8060008@idxwebservices.com> Message-ID: Hi, Art: I am interested. Pl call me on my cell 535-3454, if mine is the first e-mail. I will come and pick it up. Ramadoss On 5/5/07, Art Sexton wrote: > > > I have a free tall tower case w/ power supply and motherboard with > AMD2800 (engineering sample chip). Wife says it must go so I am trying > here first. The last time things stayed around for weeks so we need to > meet this weekend if you are claiming this. First email gets it. It > works fine but has been sitting for the past year since I upgraded. > > Art Sexton > sexton@idxwebservices.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > From asexton at swbell.net Sat May 5 10:03:00 2007 From: asexton at swbell.net (Art Sexton) Date: Sat May 5 10:02:18 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Free case and mb...spoken for. In-Reply-To: <463C93A4.8060008@idxwebservices.com> References: <463C93A4.8060008@idxwebservices.com> Message-ID: <463C9CA4.900@swbell.net> Jim Wells was "Johnny on the spot" and has this spoken for. Thanks all. Art Sexton Art Sexton wrote: > > I have a free tall tower case w/ power supply and motherboard with > AMD2800 (engineering sample chip). Wife says it must go so I am > trying here first. The last time things stayed around for weeks so we > need to meet this weekend if you are claiming this. First email gets > it. It works fine but has been sitting for the past year since I > upgraded. > > Art Sexton > sexton@idxwebservices.com > > > From tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org Sat May 5 12:28:23 2007 From: tweeksjunk2 at theweeks.org (tom weeks) Date: Sat May 5 13:28:24 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Austin Meeting - Metasploit; May 10th In-Reply-To: <463BEE5C.8000403@gmail.com> References: <850809.95697.qm@web38109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2800.192.168.2.1.1178326706.squirrel@luisgarza.com> <463BEE5C.8000403@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200705051228.24732.tweeksjunk2@theweeks.org> On Friday 04 May 2007 21:39, Samuel Leon wrote: > Luis Garza wrote: > > Those interested in going from San Antonio to Austin, please let me know. > > Maybe we can arrange a car caravan to Austin. Please let me know. > > > > Brad Knowles wrote: > > I had never even heard of metasploit before. Sure, count me in! It's what all the script kiddies use to break into servers now. It's a modular penetration tool that lets you choose the attack vector tool as well as the payload. See it here being launched from Whoppix: http://eks0.free.fr/whax-demos/?f=Whoppix-ssh-dcom_config.xml But Whoppix is the older CD distro used above... Whoppix evolved into Whax, which merged with another security distro into what's now called BackTrak: http://swik.net/BackTrack It's one of the hotter security distros out there now. Tweeks From cd_satl at futuretechsolutions.com Sat May 5 16:04:28 2007 From: cd_satl at futuretechsolutions.com (Charles Hogan) Date: Sat May 5 16:09:33 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Bruce Bowen In-Reply-To: <1178374042.5053.1.camel@phrodo.texas.net> References: <003a01c78d32$4cf58af0$6402a8c0@Blackhole4> <46395E56.9000400@gmail.com> <1178374042.5053.1.camel@phrodo.texas.net> Message-ID: <463CF15C.3010804@futuretechsolutions.com> Al Castanoli wrote: > On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 23:00 -0500, Samuel Leon wrote: > >> John Champion wrote: > >>> Absolutely. Remember that these posts are visible via a Google search. You >>> know I used to work with a hitch mechanic many years ago who couldn't do >>> jack unless he was baked. He was so good wasted that senior management >>> looked the otherway while he took smoke breaks in an adjacent facility. But >>> that fact aside...go to Google and type in your email name. You'll be >>> shocked at what you can find. > >> A guy I knew once told me that he knew a sky crane operator that had >> really shaky hands. I don't know if it was Parkinson's or what. But >> apparently a couple of beers would fix him right up. >> What a life.... > > That's great - now we can stop worrying about drunk airline pilots who > are just steadying their hands. > > Al Castanoli > My father had much the same problem with his shaky hands. My step-mother finally convinced him to quit drinking and low and behold, his hands quit shaking a few weeks after he got off the sauce. Charles From hewittrj_78244 at grandecom.net Sat May 5 16:31:58 2007 From: hewittrj_78244 at grandecom.net (Robert J Hewitt) Date: Sat May 5 16:32:33 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] I Mac and Me Message-ID: <200705052132.l45LWBHO021285@mx3.lsn.net> I ran acrossa deal for a iMac 500mhz processor and I think the latest version of OSX for under $200. it is the one with the CRT screen and all in one except the keyboard and mouse of course and was wandering if it was really worth it to get a iMax that is not intel duo core processor. I want to look into the Mac without spending a lot of cash on initial system. And after watching the youtube on windows Vista I want to see if the Mac is worth the playing with. RObert From eli at then7.com Sat May 5 17:05:05 2007 From: eli at then7.com (Eli) Date: Sat May 5 17:10:40 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] I Mac and Me In-Reply-To: <200705052132.l45LWBHO021285@mx3.lsn.net> References: <200705052132.l45LWBHO021285@mx3.lsn.net> Message-ID: <463CFF91.7080203@then7.com> Robert J Hewitt wrote: > I ran acrossa deal for a iMac 500mhz processor and I think the latest > version of OSX for under $200. it is the one with the CRT screen and all > in one except the keyboard and mouse of course and was wandering if it was > really worth it to get a iMax that is not intel duo core processor. I want > to look into the Mac without spending a lot of cash on initial system. And > after watching the youtube on windows Vista I want to see if the Mac is > worth the playing with. > Macs are great. Vista sucks. There ya go. I saved ya $200. ;-) In all seriousness, what are you trying to accomplish? Just tinker with osx? If so, an athlon/nforce4 based system runs osx quite handily. And if you use a supported nvidia/ati card, you get full accelerated desktop & opengl (meaning you get the fancy effects and can play games/demos) http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/HCL_10.4.8 Running OSX on pc hardware is often referred to as osx86/hackintosh/intellitosh...etc etc etc. It's quite fun and you'll learn a lot. The urls I've pasted below are to forums that cover macs/osx(real ones)and this section is specifically about running a hacked version of osx. http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?s=647abb022888c38457c941d834fa84b7&showforum=85 http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showforum=18 If you're comfortable with a linux command line, then with the help of those forums and of course a proper iso obtained via bt, then you can make short work of it. e From kingttx at tomslinux.homelinux.org Sat May 5 17:43:55 2007 From: kingttx at tomslinux.homelinux.org (Thomas King) Date: Sat May 5 17:44:20 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] I Mac and Me In-Reply-To: <200705052132.l45LWBHO021285@mx3.lsn.net> References: <200705052132.l45LWBHO021285@mx3.lsn.net> Message-ID: <17614.24.28.24.180.1178405035.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> > I ran acrossa deal for a iMac 500mhz processor and I think the latest > version of OSX for under $200. it is the one with the CRT screen and all > in one except the keyboard and mouse of course and was wandering if it was > really worth it to get a iMax that is not intel duo core processor. I want > to look into the Mac without spending a lot of cash on initial system. And > after watching the youtube on windows Vista I want to see if the Mac is > worth the playing with. Getting both for under $200 is a pretty decent deal IMO. You can get the latest version of OS X on Amazon from a couple of resellers for about $75 - there may be better deals out there. I got the same iMac for $129, so I'll end up paying a little more than that deal after I upgrade the memory (it needs at least 256MB to install OS X). For a starter system, that deal is pretty good as long as you don't plan on doing much high-end video or audio editing. The latest iLife needs at least a 1GHz G4 IIRC. Enjoy! Tom King From eli at then7.com Sat May 5 18:00:16 2007 From: eli at then7.com (Eli) Date: Sat May 5 18:05:52 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] I Mac and Me In-Reply-To: <17614.24.28.24.180.1178405035.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> References: <200705052132.l45LWBHO021285@mx3.lsn.net> <17614.24.28.24.180.1178405035.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <463D0C80.7020109@then7.com> Thomas King wrote: >> I ran acrossa deal for a iMac 500mhz processor and I think the latest >> version of OSX for under $200. it is the one with the CRT screen and all >> in one except the keyboard and mouse of course and was wandering if it was >> really worth it to get a iMax that is not intel duo core processor. I want >> to look into the Mac without spending a lot of cash on initial system. And >> after watching the youtube on windows Vista I want to see if the Mac is >> worth the playing with. > > Getting both for under $200 is a pretty decent deal IMO. You can get the latest > version of OS X on Amazon from a couple of resellers for about $75 - there may > be better deals out there. I got the same iMac for $129, so I'll end up paying a > little more than that deal after I upgrade the memory (it needs at least 256MB > to install OS X). For a starter system, that deal is pretty good as long as you > don't plan on doing much high-end video or audio editing. The latest iLife needs > at least a 1GHz G4 IIRC. > > Enjoy! > Tom King I didn't want to come out and bash the deal, but it sure doesn't leave me warm and fuzzy. Some careful shopping on the san antonio/austin craigslist or ebay will get you an expandable powermac for $200. But if one is looking for a glitzy desktop experience to compare to vista, running sub $500 hardware isn't really going to get one there. e From kingttx at tomslinux.homelinux.org Sat May 5 20:39:30 2007 From: kingttx at tomslinux.homelinux.org (Thomas King) Date: Sat May 5 20:39:55 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] I Mac and Me In-Reply-To: <463D0C80.7020109@then7.com> References: <200705052132.l45LWBHO021285@mx3.lsn.net> <17614.24.28.24.180.1178405035.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> <463D0C80.7020109@then7.com> Message-ID: <18262.24.28.24.180.1178415570.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> > > > Thomas King wrote: >>> I ran acrossa deal for a iMac 500mhz processor and I think the latest >>> version of OSX for under $200. it is the one with the CRT screen and all >>> in one except the keyboard and mouse of course and was wandering if it was >>> really worth it to get a iMax that is not intel duo core processor. I want >>> to look into the Mac without spending a lot of cash on initial system. And >>> after watching the youtube on windows Vista I want to see if the Mac is >>> worth the playing with. >> >> Getting both for under $200 is a pretty decent deal IMO. You can get the >> latest >> version of OS X on Amazon from a couple of resellers for about $75 - there may >> be better deals out there. I got the same iMac for $129, so I'll end up paying >> a >> little more than that deal after I upgrade the memory (it needs at least 256MB >> to install OS X). For a starter system, that deal is pretty good as long as >> you >> don't plan on doing much high-end video or audio editing. The latest iLife >> needs >> at least a 1GHz G4 IIRC. >> >> Enjoy! >> Tom King > > > I didn't want to come out and bash the deal, but it sure doesn't leave > me warm and fuzzy. > > Some careful shopping on the san antonio/austin craigslist or ebay will > get you an expandable powermac for $200. > > But if one is looking for a glitzy desktop experience to compare to > vista, running sub $500 hardware isn't really going to get one there. > > e I guess that depends on your timing. I had won a 677MHz PowerMac on Ebay that cost me about $375 (I think it was actually more, but memory fails me). Believe me, I did quite a bit of watching. I do hope you can get a better deal out there, now. Like he said, some careful shopping might land you a great deal. Enjoy! Tom From scarolan at gmail.com Sat May 5 20:46:56 2007 From: scarolan at gmail.com (Sean Carolan) Date: Sat May 5 20:47:20 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] I Mac and Me In-Reply-To: <18262.24.28.24.180.1178415570.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> References: <200705052132.l45LWBHO021285@mx3.lsn.net> <17614.24.28.24.180.1178405035.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> <463D0C80.7020109@then7.com> <18262.24.28.24.180.1178415570.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <277020fc0705051846r59a1de5ck71dac3bd4be4e2a@mail.gmail.com> Robert: If it's cool eye candy you're after I would recommend Ubuntu Feisty (7.04) with the compiz desktop effects turned on. You can get an OS X expose-like effect, "wobbly windows", and the famous spinning cube with 4 desktops on it. I actually like it better than OSX, because I have gotten so used to having multiple desktops to work on. Also, the command line tools included with OS X are not as complete as what you get on a GNU/Linux system. Sean From eli at then7.com Sat May 5 21:20:59 2007 From: eli at then7.com (Eli) Date: Sat May 5 21:26:31 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] I Mac and Me In-Reply-To: <18262.24.28.24.180.1178415570.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> References: <200705052132.l45LWBHO021285@mx3.lsn.net> <17614.24.28.24.180.1178405035.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> <463D0C80.7020109@then7.com> <18262.24.28.24.180.1178415570.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> Message-ID: <463D3B8B.1050707@then7.com> >> >> I didn't want to come out and bash the deal, but it sure doesn't leave >> me warm and fuzzy. >> >> Some careful shopping on the san antonio/austin craigslist or ebay will >> get you an expandable powermac for $200. >> >> But if one is looking for a glitzy desktop experience to compare to >> vista, running sub $500 hardware isn't really going to get one there. >> >> e > > I guess that depends on your timing. I had won a 677MHz PowerMac on Ebay that > cost me about $375 (I think it was actually more, but memory fails me). Believe > me, I did quite a bit of watching. > > I do hope you can get a better deal out there, now. Like he said, some careful > shopping might land you a great deal. > > Enjoy! > Tom you're right. just a few months makes a difference too. what's amazing is that a 8 year old mac can be sold. a 5 year old pc can barely be given away. e From benjamin.temple at gmail.com Sat May 5 22:35:47 2007 From: benjamin.temple at gmail.com (Benjamin Temple) Date: Sat May 5 22:36:12 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Linux video Message-ID: <368c881c0705052035t79ed9babx7dd8b679a61fa68d@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I did this Linux installation tutorial that covers Ubuntu Linux and SimplyMEPIS. The link to the video is: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2215418486881694095&hl=en You should be able to play it if you have Flash Player installed. From zeb.fletcher at gmail.com Sat May 5 22:49:27 2007 From: zeb.fletcher at gmail.com (Zeb Fletcher) Date: Sat May 5 22:49:52 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] I Mac and Me In-Reply-To: <463D3B8B.1050707@then7.com> References: <200705052132.l45LWBHO021285@mx3.lsn.net> <17614.24.28.24.180.1178405035.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> <463D0C80.7020109@then7.com> <18262.24.28.24.180.1178415570.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> <463D3B8B.1050707@then7.com> Message-ID: <128bff2f0705052049v1a2f3574oe7ea672ea3372155@mail.gmail.com> There are deals to be had out there. I just lost a bid for 6 iMacs on a pallet from a School district in Austin the winning bid was $61. Look at lowendmac.com to see the going prices from resellers it should give you an ideal what is the norm to pay for. The worst part of buying online is shipping these suckers weight close to 50 lbs so your going to pay for them. Zeb On 5/5/07, Eli wrote: > > > >> > >> I didn't want to come out and bash the deal, but it sure doesn't leave > >> me warm and fuzzy. > >> > >> Some careful shopping on the san antonio/austin craigslist or ebay will > >> get you an expandable powermac for $200. > >> > >> But if one is looking for a glitzy desktop experience to compare to > >> vista, running sub $500 hardware isn't really going to get one there. > >> > >> e > > > > I guess that depends on your timing. I had won a 677MHz PowerMac on Ebay > that > > cost me about $375 (I think it was actually more, but memory fails me). > Believe > > me, I did quite a bit of watching. > > > > I do hope you can get a better deal out there, now. Like he said, some > careful > > shopping might land you a great deal. > > > > Enjoy! > > Tom > > > you're right. just a few months makes a difference too. what's amazing > is that a 8 year old mac can be sold. a 5 year old pc can barely be > given away. > > e > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > From esanchezvela at yahoo.com Sat May 5 23:03:52 2007 From: esanchezvela at yahoo.com (Enrique Sanchez Vela) Date: Sat May 5 23:04:14 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] SSH Forwarding Problem In-Reply-To: <277020fc0705050451s25fcb429l80c3c08d8b3fd3ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <501512.14135.qm@web30304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Sean Carolan wrote: > > I just tried your configuration and worked fine > for > > me, actually, I was able to replicate the same > error > > when the target host was unresolvable to the > bridge > > box. > > I wonder why would it work from the command line, > but not if the exact > same settings are put into an .ssh/config file? > > FYI, in my situation the target host is resolvable > from the bridge box. > -- > ___ hate to ask the obvious, but here I go. did you try adding one or more -v to the ssh command line when using the config file? regards, enrique. -------------------------------------- "What you have been obliged to discover by yourself leaves a path in your mind which you can use again when the need arises." --G. C. Lichtenberg http://themathcircle.org/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From zeb.fletcher at gmail.com Sat May 5 23:04:14 2007 From: zeb.fletcher at gmail.com (Zeb Fletcher) Date: Sat May 5 23:04:43 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] I Mac and Me In-Reply-To: <463D3B8B.1050707@then7.com> Message-ID: Found this posting at craigslist just now http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/sys/324700767.html $69 for an iMac. Zeb From brad at shub-internet.org Sat May 5 22:40:22 2007 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sat May 5 23:39:41 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] I Mac and Me In-Reply-To: <277020fc0705051846r59a1de5ck71dac3bd4be4e2a@mail.gmail.com> References: <200705052132.l45LWBHO021285@mx3.lsn.net> <17614.24.28.24.180.1178405035.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> <463D0C80.7020109@then7.com> <18262.24.28.24.180.1178415570.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> <277020fc0705051846r59a1de5ck71dac3bd4be4e2a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/5/07, Sean Carolan wrote: > I actually like it better than OSX, because I have gotten so used to > having multiple desktops to work on. There are multiple different packages for Mac OS X that provide multiple desktops, and have done for a long time. Many authors are starting to bail out on supporting these programs, because Leopard (10.5) will include a native feature that will obviate the need for these third-party packages, but for now there are still several options available. > Also, the command line tools > included with OS X are not as complete as what you get on a GNU/Linux > system. In what way are the Mac OS X CLI tools not complete? You get the full development kit (if you choose to install it), and pretty much all the other standard CLI tools I know of. What's missing? -- Brad Knowles , Consultant & Author LinkedIn Profile: Slides from Invited Talks: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 From brad at shub-internet.org Sat May 5 22:54:52 2007 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sat May 5 23:39:45 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] I Mac and Me In-Reply-To: <200705052132.l45LWBHO021285@mx3.lsn.net> References: <200705052132.l45LWBHO021285@mx3.lsn.net> Message-ID: On 5/5/07, Robert J Hewitt wrote: > I ran acrossa deal for a iMac 500mhz processor and I think the latest > version of OSX for under $200. it is the one with the CRT screen and all > in one except the keyboard and mouse of course and was wandering if it was > really worth it to get a iMax that is not intel duo core processor. Well, LowEndMac has a deals page on the G3 iMacs at . For the class of hardware you're talking about, the best price they show is $269 (500MHz PowerPC G3 w/ DVD), and with enough RAM this would actually officially be supported by Apple for running Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger", although it wouldn't run very fast. The 450MHz G3 with DVD is $97, while the 600MHz G3 with CD-RW is $130. So, what then is the price of Mac OS X "Tiger"? The Apple Store lists it for $129.00 retail, single-user. All together, that would be $398 if you bought exactly the same models. That would be from reputable businesses with a long history in the community and a retail presence. Of course, you might have to pay shipping on the computer (since there are local stores where you can go buy Mac OS X in person), but that's probably not going to cost enough to make up the difference. Personally, if I was buying from a private individual locally, I'd want to either get more for my money, or a better deal. Is the seller going to throw in a lot more software "for free"? Is there anything else included in the package that would help make it worthwhile? > I want to look into the Mac without spending a lot of cash on initial > system. And after watching the youtube on windows Vista I want to see > if the Mac is worth the playing with. Check the LowEndMac "deals" pages. If you're fine spending that amount of money, then I think you can get better hardware that would do a better job of running the OS and giving you a more proper look at Mac OS X, before you make up your mine. Otherwise, I think you can get the same hardware for less money. Myself, I've got at least two or three old machines that I'm going to be selling soon, including a PowerBook G3 "Pismo" with 400MHz PowerPC G4 processor and 1GB of RAM, and a PowerBook G4 "TiBook" with 867MHz PowerPC G4 processor and 1GB of RAM. The disk configuration on both of these has yet to be determined, because I've got a lot of older "bare" drives that have been pulled out of machines after I upgraded to higher capacity models, so I could pick and choose which drive(s) I wanted to put in which machines. I'll probably also be getting rid of an iBook G4 with 1.33-1.42GHz PowerPC G4 processor (I don't know exactly what speed), and a more normal RAM & disk configuration. This is the machine my wife is currently using as her primary computer, and I need to get everything copied over to my old PowerBook G4 "AlBook", which used to be my primary computer before I got this MacBook Pro C2D a couple of weeks ago. -- Brad Knowles , Consultant & Author LinkedIn Profile: Slides from Invited Talks: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 From dmyhand at suddenlink.net Sun May 6 07:31:10 2007 From: dmyhand at suddenlink.net (Dennis Myhand) Date: Sun May 6 07:31:32 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] I Mac and Me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <463DCA8E.2080207@suddenlink.net> Zeb Fletcher wrote: > Found this posting at craigslist just now > http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/sys/324700767.html > > $69 for an iMac. > > > Zeb > > > Not meaning to rain on anybody's parade, but please understand this is one of the very basic first models. A 333MHz processor and 64 megs of RAM will barely let you run 10.2. I had a friend with a set-up like this and he tried to move up to 10.3 and it would not handle it. It became unusably slow and would crash (And, Yes, Macs will crash.) with great regularity. He was a definite Mac Addict and it drove him nuts that he could not run the latest and greatest on all his hardware. Peace, Dennis From demeler at biochem.uthscsa.edu Sun May 6 08:01:12 2007 From: demeler at biochem.uthscsa.edu (Borries Demeler) Date: Sun May 6 08:01:46 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] battery monitor Message-ID: <200705061301.l46D1CXp022286@biochem.uthscsa.edu> Can someone suggest a KDE3 panel button application that lets me monitor battery status? I looked around but didn't find anything that worked. I got all the ACPI info in /proc for battery. Thanks, -borries From scarolan at gmail.com Sun May 6 08:03:06 2007 From: scarolan at gmail.com (Sean Carolan) Date: Sun May 6 08:03:32 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] I Mac and Me In-Reply-To: <277020fc0705060601r1ade2593tf951f55295c68821@mail.gmail.com> References: <200705052132.l45LWBHO021285@mx3.lsn.net> <17614.24.28.24.180.1178405035.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> <463D0C80.7020109@then7.com> <18262.24.28.24.180.1178415570.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> <277020fc0705051846r59a1de5ck71dac3bd4be4e2a@mail.gmail.com> <277020fc0705060601r1ade2593tf951f55295c68821@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <277020fc0705060603t6bf9f3f0v3b68b2137d1217dd@mail.gmail.com> > In what way are the Mac OS X CLI tools not complete? You get the > full development kit (if you choose to install it), and pretty much > all the other standard CLI tools I know of. > > What's missing? I should have been more specific. The last time I worked from the command line on a Mac the default shell was tcsh. I prefer bash but I have heard that newer versions of OS X include bash by default? Most flavors of Linux have better command line tools for package management and dependency resolving. It would be great if Mac had an equivalent system to yum or apt, where you could grab new F/OSS software with a short command, instead of compiling from scratch. I'm also not a huge fan of the OS X built-in Terminal app, finding gnome-terminal to be more customizable to my needs. When you have several ssh sessions open in terminal windows, it's nice to have them all in tabs instead of separate windows. This is not specifically a command-line issue, but it is related since you have to use Terminal to get to the command line, unless you install a 3rd party app. Nothing against Macs though. I may get one after my current system kicks the bucket. From jfw5cpa at gmail.com Sun May 6 08:45:11 2007 From: jfw5cpa at gmail.com (Jim Wells) Date: Sun May 6 08:45:40 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] battery monitor In-Reply-To: <200705061301.l46D1CXp022286@biochem.uthscsa.edu> References: <200705061301.l46D1CXp022286@biochem.uthscsa.edu> Message-ID: <463DDBE7.40400@gmail.com> Borries, On my laptop running Mepis 6.0 there is an application called KPowersave that runs & monitors the battery status. It *seems* to work well, at least on my laptop. Not knowing what distro you are running, it might be included? Jim Borries Demeler wrote: > Can someone suggest a KDE3 panel button application that lets me monitor > battery status? I looked around but didn't find anything that worked. > I got all the ACPI info in /proc for battery. > > Thanks, -borries From demeler at biochem.uthscsa.edu Sun May 6 09:05:20 2007 From: demeler at biochem.uthscsa.edu (Borries Demeler) Date: Sun May 6 09:05:51 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] battery monitor In-Reply-To: <463DDBE7.40400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200705061405.l46E5KBo002899@biochem.uthscsa.edu> > > Borries, > On my laptop running Mepis 6.0 there is an application called KPowersave > that runs & monitors the battery status. It *seems* to work well, at > least on my laptop. Not knowing what distro you are running, it might > be included? Thanks, Jim, but I tried kpowersave without luck since it requires qt D-bus modules that are only available in QT 4. I am running slack-11 which is based on QT 3, which doesn't come with these modules. But I found "klaptop" which gives a basic tool to monitor and run scripts based on battery status - that will do for now. Thanks, -Borries From asexton at swbell.net Sun May 6 09:26:08 2007 From: asexton at swbell.net (Art Sexton) Date: Sun May 6 09:25:20 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] games and utilities cds to give away In-Reply-To: <463C93A4.8060008@idxwebservices.com> References: <463C93A4.8060008@idxwebservices.com> Message-ID: <463DE580.9060202@swbell.net> We are in the process of our spring cleaning (late) and so now I have a lot of cds to give away. These are all older windows based games and utilities, so they should run alright under wine, etc. Most are original but some are copies (I had the originals but they have been destroyed by kids over time). Whoever claims them needs to take all of them, and I need them gone today. I am on the northwest side of town and can meet you around here. I will list a few of the titles for you: Air Warrior III Nascar Raching Net War Monster Truck Madness 2 Harry Potter World Book Encyclopedia 2002 (x2) Comptons 2000 Family dictionary Just for Kids, Educational Programs Encarta 99 Atari Anniversary Edition Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego Think Speak & Write Better MS Works (version?) Dangerous Creatures MS Office Gateway 2000 Edition MS Win 95 Power by Hand (Palm tutor) HyperBlade Leisure Suit Larry Age of Empires II, The age of Kings First to email me at sexton@idxwebservices.com gets them....otherwise they get given away tomorrow. Art Sexton sexton@idxwebservices.com From kingttx at tomslinux.homelinux.org Sun May 6 11:11:32 2007 From: kingttx at tomslinux.homelinux.org (Thomas King) Date: Sun May 6 11:11:58 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] I Mac and Me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <22011.24.28.24.180.1178467892.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> > Found this posting at craigslist just now > http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/sys/324700767.html > > $69 for an iMac. > > > Zeb The key to that one is the sentence, "The iMac may come with either OS 9.2 or OS X". With the specs given, it's not running OS X. If you find a 500MHz with 256MB or more and running OS X (the highest without getting a DVD drive is 10.3 unless you find 10.4 split across CD-ROMS), that's comparable to what we are discussing. Please correct me if I'm wrong. From bruce.dubbs at gmail.com Sun May 6 11:42:44 2007 From: bruce.dubbs at gmail.com (Bruce Dubbs) Date: Sun May 6 11:43:06 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] battery monitor In-Reply-To: <200705061301.l46D1CXp022286@biochem.uthscsa.edu> References: <200705061301.l46D1CXp022286@biochem.uthscsa.edu> Message-ID: <463E0584.805@gmail.com> Borries Demeler wrote: > Can someone suggest a KDE3 panel button application that lets me monitor > battery status? I looked around but didn't find anything that worked. > I got all the ACPI info in /proc for battery. Try going to KDE's Control Center -> Power Control -> Laptop Battery -- Bruce From brad at shub-internet.org Sun May 6 15:07:03 2007 From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sun May 6 15:09:04 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] I Mac and Me In-Reply-To: <277020fc0705060603t6bf9f3f0v3b68b2137d1217dd@mail.gmail.com> References: <200705052132.l45LWBHO021285@mx3.lsn.net> <17614.24.28.24.180.1178405035.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> <463D0C80.7020109@then7.com> <18262.24.28.24.180.1178415570.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> <277020fc0705051846r59a1de5ck71dac3bd4be4e2a@mail.gmail.com> <277020fc0705060601r1ade2593tf951f55295c68821@mail.gmail.com> <277020fc0705060603t6bf9f3f0v3b68b2137d1217dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/6/07, Sean Carolan wrote: > I should have been more specific. The last time I worked from the > command line on a Mac the default shell was tcsh. I prefer bash but I > have heard that newer versions of OS X include bash by default? I prefer tcsh, but bash is also present in /bin/. Other than that, I can't really say very much. > Most flavors of Linux have better command line tools for package > management and dependency resolving. It would be great if Mac had an > equivalent system to yum or apt, where you could grab new F/OSS > software with a short command, instead of compiling from scratch. Package management in the sense you're talking about is not appropriate when you're talking about native Mac OS applications. They all have their own installers, or you just click-n-drag the binaries, or whatever. There is no Apple-imposed package management scheme, and I don't think there ever will be. Package management is just not something that Mac OS X tries to do. If you want that, try Fink, or one of the other third-party tools. > I'm also not a huge fan of the OS X built-in Terminal app, finding > gnome-terminal to be more customizable to my needs. When you have > several ssh sessions open in terminal windows, it's nice to have them > all in tabs instead of separate windows. This is not specifically a > command-line issue, but it is related since you have to use Terminal > to get to the command line, unless you install a 3rd party app. I've tried multiple different terminal programs on Mac OS X, and none of them have worked anywhere remotely as close to as well as Terminal.app. Okay, Terminal.app doesn't support running things in tabbed mode, but I've never heard of a program that did, at least not until now. All the alternatives I've tried on Mac OS X have taken a great deal more CPU & RAM in order to run, and provided a lot fewer features for their much heavier price. > Nothing against Macs though. I may get one after my current system > kicks the bucket. Don't get me wrong -- Mac OS X has plenty of things that I feel are wrong or need serious improvement. I don't think it's "perfect" by any stretch of the imagination. However, if there are areas in which others think it's weak, I want to try to understand what those are, and see if I agree. -- Brad Knowles , Consultant & Author LinkedIn Profile: Slides from Invited Talks: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 From satlugacct at jchampion.com Sun May 6 20:41:18 2007 From: satlugacct at jchampion.com (John Champion) Date: Sun May 6 20:45:25 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Bruce Bowen In-Reply-To: <463C93CD.9050502@suddenlink.net> Message-ID: <00b601c79048$e130b820$6402a8c0@Blackhole4> I have been watching this thread with some interest. I have heard these stories about people who work better drunk or stoned since I was very small mainly due to the fact my father was an undiagnosed alcoholic. My own experience is that it is a load of crap. In one day while I was in the military 30 years ago, an acid freak and a drunk together put six men from my unit in the hospital. I was one of the injured. My ankle still hurts when the weather changes. If you are going to get wasted and do something stupid, lock yourself in the garage, get just as drunk or stoned as you want, make sure you are ALL alone, and play with a 16p nail gun. If someone operated a piece of equipment better when they were messed up than when straight, they didn't need to be using that machine in EITHER condition. M2C--YMMV, Dennis Myhand -- Look folks...the hitch mechanic that I worked with was just that. He used his welder and cutting torch to create custom trailer hitches for people who needed them. Moreover, he was a stoner. He really truly was the world's most incompetent employee when he was sober. His work brought in so much money that one of our company's executives (this was for a publicly traded, world class company that deals with rv's and trailers) instructed local management to look the other way. How do I know? I was the assistant manager. Yes...if you put anyone in direct contact with a hallucinagen, don't be surprised by the results. But in this guy's case, all the stuff did was make him comfortable and relaxed. And charging people $65/hr to build a hitch back in the mid-80s was generating a lot of income because he'd work 15-18 hour days. Would I hire someone like that? No. But this joker was really good when baked and pretty bad when sober. He also didn't have an expense in the world because he moved into his late-mother's house, had no cable or phone, paid off his truck, and basically lived debt free. From demeler at biochem.uthscsa.edu Sun May 6 20:57:34 2007 From: demeler at biochem.uthscsa.edu (Borries Demeler) Date: Sun May 6 20:58:06 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Bruce Bowen In-Reply-To: <00b601c79048$e130b820$6402a8c0@Blackhole4> Message-ID: <200705070157.l471vYJu015712@biochem.uthscsa.edu> > Look folks...the hitch mechanic that I worked with was just that. He used > his welder and cutting torch to create custom trailer hitches for people who > needed them. Moreover, he was a stoner. He really truly was the world's most > incompetent employee when he was sober. His work brought in so much money > that one of our company's executives (this was for a publicly traded, world > class company that deals with rv's and trailers) instructed local management > to look the other way. How do I know? I was the assistant manager. Yes...if > you put anyone in direct contact with a hallucinagen, don't be surprised by > the results. But in this guy's case, all the stuff did was make him > comfortable and relaxed. And charging people $65/hr to build a hitch back in > the mid-80s was generating a lot of income because he'd work 15-18 hour > days. Would I hire someone like that? No. > > But this joker was really good when baked and pretty bad when sober. He also > didn't have an expense in the world because he moved into his late-mother's > house, had no cable or phone, paid off his truck, and basically lived debt > free. Ouchh! Would you like to tow a 1+ ton trailer with a hitch welded by this guy? Over mountain passes? This executive/management/employee sound like a major liability for this publically traded, world class RV company.... -b. From esanchezvela at yahoo.com Sun May 6 23:04:03 2007 From: esanchezvela at yahoo.com (Enrique Sanchez Vela) Date: Sun May 6 23:04:25 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] refurbished pcs. In-Reply-To: <991686.23225.qm@web30314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <993972.69388.qm@web30301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Enrique Sanchez Vela wrote: > I got a couple of refurbished netvista pcs from > tigerdirect and put Fedora6 and ubuntu there, they > work fine as long as you keep using them, but the > moment I leave them alone for an extended period 8-10 > hours) they freeze or the response time is very > sluggish, I guess they want to be at par with > GVTC slowband service. > I am able to login again but executing commands is > just painful & frustrating. > esv. > > http://themathcircle.org/ > -- > _______________________________________________ > SATLUG mailing list > SATLUG@satlug.org > http://alamo.satlug.org/mailman/listinfo/satlug to > unsubscribe > Powered by Rackspace (www.rackspace.com) > just an update on this front, apparently this is a problem either introduced in FC 6 or a microcode update, but it turns out to be an ACPI problem, setting acpi=off in the grub.conf file seems to fix the problem. As of GVTC, they seem to have fixed their problems too or their up-link carrier did, since the service seems faster too. regards, esv. -------------------------------------- "What you have been obliged to discover by yourself leaves a path in your mind which you can use again when the need arises." --G. C. Lichtenberg http://themathcircle.org/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From firestorm.v1 at gmail.com Sun May 6 23:56:40 2007 From: firestorm.v1 at gmail.com (FIRESTORM_v1) Date: Sun May 6 23:57:07 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] OT, anyone know anyone in the houstson LUG? Message-ID: <869de8470705062156u2a732ee2n142ea6c5c2f20f1e@mail.gmail.com> I know this is a weird question to be asking, concerning locale, but does anyone know anyone or anyone here a member of an active Houston LUG? I've tried looking at the houston LUG website (at http://www.hlug.org ) but there's nothing useful there but a very bizarre web app called a TWiki which appears to have as much usability as old DMS-500 switch manuals. Please contact me if you or anyone you know of knows od a houston LUG that has an active mailing list or at least active meetings. Thank you. FIRESTORM_v1 From geoff at w5omr.shacknet.nu Mon May 7 05:17:47 2007 From: geoff at w5omr.shacknet.nu (Geoff) Date: Mon May 7 05:18:17 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Bruce Bowen In-Reply-To: <200705070157.l471vYJu015712@biochem.uthscsa.edu> References: <200705070157.l471vYJu015712@biochem.uthscsa.edu> Message-ID: <463EFCCB.6090005@w5omr.shacknet.nu> Borries Demeler wrote: > > Ouchh! > Would you like to tow a 1+ ton trailer with a hitch welded by this guy? > Over mountain passes? This executive/management/employee sound > like a major liability for this publically traded, world class RV company.... > > -b. > if it passed the xray, yes. From scs at worldlinkisp.com Mon May 7 08:23:09 2007 From: scs at worldlinkisp.com (scs@worldlinkisp.com) Date: Mon May 7 08:23:42 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] OT, anyone know anyone in the houstson LUG? Message-ID: <931fa7d30a3b427fa40ee3d20cbec219.scs@worldlinkisp.com> >Subject : RE: [SATLUG] OT, anyone know anyone in the houstson LUG? > >I know this is a weird question to be asking, concerning locale, but does >anyone know anyone or anyone here a member of an active Houston LUG? >I've tried looking at the houston LUG website (at http://www.hlug.org ) but >there's nothing useful there but a very bizarre web app called a TWiki >which appears to have as much usability as old DMS-500 switch manuals. >Please contact me if you or anyone you know of knows od a houston LUG that >has an active mailing list or at least active meetings. __________________________________________________________________________- Too much Cinco de Mayo? A quick Google brings up www.hlug.org , their good looking home page lists scheduled meetings and locations, and the upper right corner " User Log-In " has a " create one " (in orange fonts) allowing you to " adduser " Matter of fact, will create one to facilitate Harris Co. support when I'm trouble shooting my girl friend's connection, and erstwhile Embarq support. HTH Lou From scarolan at gmail.com Mon May 7 08:39:20 2007 From: scarolan at gmail.com (Sean Carolan) Date: Mon May 7 08:39:43 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] SSH Forwarding Problem In-Reply-To: <501512.14135.qm@web30304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <277020fc0705050451s25fcb429l80c3c08d8b3fd3ec@mail.gmail.com> <501512.14135.qm@web30304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <277020fc0705070639i1fcad20fu8d62b80f045c6d3b@mail.gmail.com> > hate to ask the obvious, but here I go. > > did you try adding one or more -v to the ssh command > line when using the config file? This is what I get: scarolan@xwing:~$ ssh -vvv cherry OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-8ubuntu1, OpenSSL 0.9.8c 05 Sep 2006 debug1: Reading configuration data /home/scarolan/.ssh/config debug1: Applying options for * debug1: Applying options for cherry debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config debug1: Applying options for * debug2: ssh_connect: needpriv 0 debug1: Connecting to localhost [127.0.0.1] port 20031. debug1: Connection established. debug1: identity file /home/scarolan/.ssh/identity type -1 debug1: identity file /home/scarolan/.ssh/id_rsa type -1 debug3: Not a RSA1 key file /home/scarolan/.ssh/id_dsa. debug2: key_type_from_name: unknown key type '-----BEGIN' debug3: key_read: missing keytype debug2: key_type_from_name: unknown key type 'Proc-Type:' debug3: key_read: missing keytype debug2: key_type_from_name: unknown key type 'DEK-Info:' debug3: key_read: missing keytype debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug3: key_read: missing whitespace debug2: key_type_from_name: unknown key type '-----END' debug3: key_read: missing keytype debug1: identity file /home/scarolan/.ssh/id_dsa type 2 ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host From nathan at gvtc.com Mon May 7 08:57:50 2007 From: nathan at gvtc.com (nathan@gvtc.com) Date: Mon May 7 08:58:15 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] Computer Show Message-ID: <20070507085750.m51hjetw8wsccgww@webmail.gvtc.com> To the regulars that work the computer show, do we need anything other then what we normally bring for this Saturday? Can we do a quick get together at the meeting this week? I may be a little late getting to the show, I have to vote at two different places that are in opposite directions and both out of the way to get to Live Oak. For those that are not familiar with the computer show, goto the SATLUG web site and scroll down to the Computer Show Link. Nathan From pixelnate at gmail.com Mon May 7 09:01:08 2007 From: pixelnate at gmail.com (Nate Turnage) Date: Mon May 7 09:01:33 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] I Mac and Me In-Reply-To: <277020fc0705060603t6bf9f3f0v3b68b2137d1217dd@mail.gmail.com> References: <200705052132.l45LWBHO021285@mx3.lsn.net> <17614.24.28.24.180.1178405035.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> <463D0C80.7020109@then7.com> <18262.24.28.24.180.1178415570.squirrel@tomslinux.homelinux.org> <277020fc0705051846r59a1de5ck71dac3bd4be4e2a@mail.gmail.com> <277020fc0705060601r1ade2593tf951f55295c68821@mail.gmail.com> <277020fc0705060603t6bf9f3f0v3b68b2137d1217dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/6/07, Sean Carolan wrote: > > > I should have been more specific. The last time I worked from the > command line on a Mac the default shell was tcsh. I prefer bash but I > have heard that newer versions of OS X include bash by default? That is correct. Most flavors of Linux have better command line tools for package > management and dependency resolving. It would be great if Mac had an > equivalent system to yum or apt, where you could grab new F/OSS > software with a short command, instead of compiling from scratch. You can do this with fink while getting apps from darwinports. I'm also not a huge fan of the OS X built-in Terminal app, finding > gnome-terminal to be more customizable to my needs. When you have > several ssh sessions open in terminal windows, it's nice to have them > all in tabs instead of separate windows. This is not specifically a > command-line issue, but it is related since you have to use Terminal > to get to the command line, unless you install a 3rd party app. Like iTerm. It does everything and more than Gnome terminal. Nothing against Macs though. I may get one after my current system > kicks the bucket. That's funny. I want to go the other way. If Photoshop and Flash ever make it to linux, it's good bye Apple for me. Can't wait to play with Ubuntu Studio. ~Nate From firestorm.v1 at gmail.com Mon May 7 11:48:16 2007 From: firestorm.v1 at gmail.com (FIRESTORM_v1) Date: Mon May 7 11:48:39 2007 Subject: [SATLUG] OT, anyone know anyone in the houstson LUG? In-Reply-To: <931fa7d30a3b427fa40ee3d20cbec219.scs@worldlinkisp.com> References: <931fa7d30a3b427fa40ee3d20cbec219.scs@worldlinkisp.com> Message-ID: <869de8470705070948l24a736a0yb9e828cdf36a47f5@mail.gmail.com> that's the weird thing, I went to hlug and created an account, but couldn't use their twiki thing to do anything. As far as I can tell, there's no forum, no mailing lists, no members pages, nothing at all. Believe me, I used Google before I asked SATLUG, and investigated on my own before I hit this bizarre roadblock.. Thanks for the heads up. Matt On 5/7/07, scs@worldlinkisp.com wrote: > > >Subject : RE: [SATLUG] OT, anyone know anyone in the > houstson LUG? > > > >I know this is a weird question to be asking, > concerning locale, but does > >anyone know anyone or anyone here a member of an > active Houston LUG? > > >I've tried looking at the houston LUG website (at > http://www.hlug.org ) but > >there's nothing useful there but a very bizarre web > app called a TWiki > >which appears to have as much usability as old > DMS-500 switch manuals. > > >Please contact me if you or anyone you know of knows > od a houston LUG that > >has an active mailing list or at least active meetings. > > __________________________________________________________________________- > Too much Cinco de Mayo? > > A quick Google brings up www.hlug.org , their good > looking home page lists > scheduled meetings and locations, and the upper right > corner " User Log-In " > has a " create one " (in orange fonts) allowing you > to " adduser " > > Matter of fact, will create one to facilitate Harris > Co. support when I'm > trouble shooting my girl friend's connection, and > erstwhile Embarq support. > > HTH Lou > > > > -- > _______________________________________