[SATLUG] Re: Any Technical/Automation - now PV
pcdls.ronin at gmail.com
Mon May 24 14:25:45 CDT 2010
Anybody ever consider the environmental costs of semiconductor
production? The entire process is wrought with chemicals and poisons
that also occasionally escape into the environment. Cursing us with
the pain of a potential tax is no way to endear oneself to those of us
sitting on the fence. As for this carbon tax, do you really trust the
people who want to administer it?
Besides, my point was not to nay-say, but to point out the importance of
disseminating the information needed to support this form of technology
with a broad spectrum of providers. Until this information gets into
the hands of the rest of us mundanes, then we are at the mercy of those
who say they want to "save" us. Tax manipulations, rebates and
emotion-fueled rhetoric will not convince me of this technology's
legitimacy as a "primary" source of power. But, I do believe that it
has a place as an "alternative" source of power to supplement what we
I want to see a peaceful, technologically advanced and technologically
enhanced society with a clean environment as much as the next guy; but,
the throw-the-baby-out-with-the-bathwater politics of environmentalists
tends to be counter-productive. If environmentalists want a sympathetic
ear, they need to promote economic balance and a more open,
information-based society to stimulate well-informed and productive
dialog. To be fair, we should all be promoting "open" information for
it is not the responsibility of any one group but the responsibility of
our entire human race (if we expect to get anywhere). Our current
political climate doesn't exactly make this easy.
Borries Demeler wrote:
>> Excellent advice.
>> P.S. love your PV comment in your sign-off. Do PV actually pay off in
>> the long term, given initial cost, degradation, service and the like?
>> Doubt it. At least my calculations have indicated it to be
>> cost-prohibitive in the long term model. Now if I lived in a windy
>> area, at least I could CNC some replacement parts to a wind turbine as
>> part of a long term maintenance and repair effort using basic human
>> ability. I can't exactly develop and maintain a silicon fab lab (or
>> readily find people to support it) to easily support poly-amorphous
>> silicon production efforts and switch mode supplies for solar cells
>> until we pull our heads out of our butts and actually learn to share
>> this sort of manufacturing information. This is why internal combustion
>> engines won't go away any time soon. Like Linux, it's established
>> technology , readily shared and relatively easy to duplicate from a
>> manufacturing/production standpoint.
> PV systems require up-front investment, but with the rebates and tax
> credits available right now, they are VERY reasonable (my recovery is 6
> years to break even, shorter if rates go up, after that its $ in my
> CPS has its own reasons for subsidizing PV, because they want to avoid
> having to build new power plants and very expensive new distribution
> infrastructure by reducing the load, so for them it actually pays to give
> out rebates.
> All of you naysayers are completely ignoring the environmental cost of
> burning oil, coal and gas for power production. If you take that into
> consideration (as you should!) PVs are a giveaway. But I guess the
> prevailing attitude is to come up with excuses why you don't need to give
> a shit about global climate crisis and keep denying all scientific
> evidence to the contrary. Keep on cranking down the thermostat until you
> feel comfortable, keep on driving in your gas-guzzling SUV, and above all,
> drill, baby, drill! I never wanted to eat gulf shrimp anyway, and as long
> as the environmental impact isn't happening in my back yard I don't see
> But heck, it's a free country, so you are entitled to your ways. I just
> hope we get a carbon tax soon so you can feel the real cost of this
>> Chris wrote:
>>> Don Wright wrote:
>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>> I spoke to CPS about one of those, and their advice was that if
>>>>> there is usually someone
>>>>> home all day then DO NOT have one installed. But if you do get one
>>> and have ANY electronics
>>>>> in use, they should be protected by surge protectors and battery
>>> back ups or UPS with back up.
>>>>> That or kiss them goodbye.
>>>> You got a cite from competent authority for that? There's nothing
>>>> electrical that differs in this unit from a standard thermostat. The
>>>> unit just pretends the temperature is a little different than it is.
>>>> A/C turns on and off EXACTLY THE SAME as with a standard t-stat, so
>>>> where is this magic electronics-destroying monster?
>>> Unless CPS has changed policy, they DO install something out at your
>>> compressor that prevents it from cycling on for 10 to 15 minuets out
>>> of the hour, during high demand periods.
>>> If you actually want to lower your electric bill and increase your
>>> homes comfort level make sure you have at Least 15 inches of insulation
>>> in your attic.
>>> Chris (Solar PV panels are for suckers) Lee
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