[SATLUG] off-topic Solar-PV discussion

pcdls.ronin pcdls.ronin at gmail.com
Thu May 27 13:55:54 CDT 2010

Herb Cee wrote:
> Borries Demeler wrote:
>>> I don't think we should have to pay for oil-spill cleanups through
>>> taxes. If the companies were fully responsible for their actions,
>>> perhaps they'd have more incentive not to screw up. Under current
>>> Federal Law, they are only on the hook for $75,000,000. Taxes on 
>>> barrels
>>> of oil imported to the country are supposed to keep a $1,000,000,000
>> ...and even that is peanuts compared with the environmental and 
>> economical
>> damage caused by the spill. Some birds are threatened by extinction 
>> and will be irretrievably lost. Entire ecosystems will be destroyed 
>> by this.
>> A billion dollars is not going to replace this loss.
>>> fund available to have the federal government foot the rest of the 
>>> bill.
>>> Recently, the democrats tried to pass legislation that would raise the
>>> $75,000,000 to $10,000,000,000 but the republicans blocked it. Now,
>>> legislation has been proposed to quadruple the tax on the oil to raise
>>> the federal government's responsibility to $5,000,000,000. Socialized
>>> risk, privatized reward, and paying off legislators.
>> Yes, unfortunately, that's how it goes. Sad, isn't it? But guess what,
>> individualized greed beats individualized responsibility EVERY TIME!
>> So if you are counting on the industry to self-police itself (it doesn't
>> matter if it is the banking or oil and gas or coal industry) dream on.
>> it's not going to happen. Whether it is the MMS or Lehman Brothers,
>> or Goldman-Sachs.  Lack of government regulation and failure to have
>> strict enforcement screws us up every time, and the public is left
>> holding the short end of the stick.
>>> As for the supposed consequences of CO2 'enrichment' of the atmosphere:
>>> I cannot accept any climate science that has been published by 
>>> scientists that admit to forging the data and basically lying about 
>>> their research.
>> Neither can I. Those individuals (to be clear, a small group of climate
>> scientists) who violated scientific methods and ethics have caused a 
>> huge
>> amount of damage to the field, and with the help of biased media, 
>> cast doubt on
>> the overwhelming majority who conduct sound science investigations. 
>> Exactly what you are doing is now happening repeatedly. The bad 
>> apples keep
>> getting pointed to as to why the entire science must be flawed. Of 
>> course,
>> the vast majority of scientists did not falsify their science, but 
>> somehow
>> the deniers of climate crisis manage over and over to bundle all others
>> with this sorry bunch who misrepresented their work. Nothing could be
>> further from the truth, but if you just mention it often enough
>> (the media does the same, very much to the disservice of the public)
>> it just must true. I wished people would make a bit of effort to look
>> beyond this manipulation and figure out what really is going on. The
>> evidence for man-made climate crisis is overwhelming and undeniable.
>>> Making any laws or legislation fixing a supposed problem
>>> we don't completely understand is only being used as an excuse to get
>>> government to support companies that lobby it by making changes to the
>>> market in their favor.
>> On the surface, that of course sounds reasonable. The problem is only 
>> that
>> this is not at all what is going on. The evidence is rock solid, but 
>> the oil coal and gas lobby has congress wrapped around its little 
>> finger and as you say, the legislature is being paid off, the public 
>> is dumbed down,
>> and necessary regulation is prevented, and the oil and gas lobby comes
>> out ahead again.
>> Interesting conversation, though I feel we pushed it a bit too far 
>> away from
>> Linux :-)
>> -b.
> Indeed we have strayed and once again just as in the mass media there 
> was no mention of the constant spraying in our skis all over the globe 
> by whom? What is in that mist that has virtually changed the color of 
> the sky.
> How can any discussion of climate change be legitimate when this huge 
> mega tons per day of man induced pollution is not even mentioned?
> hh
Indeed, there would seem to be some actions on the part of governments 
and private citizens to deliberately pollute.  That, I think would be 
more a more provocative discussion.

But, I don't think I'll bite.  This is supposed to be a Linux mailing 
list after all.  If this were on IRC, someone would have brought the 
banhammer down on us a long time ago for going off-topic.  It was fun 
watching the banter, though.


"The truly civilized man is always skeptical and tolerant, in this field 
as in all others. His culture is based on 'I am not too sure'."  ~ H.L. 

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