[SATLUG] Devuan

Borries Demeler demeler at biochem.uthscsa.edu
Mon Dec 1 10:01:41 CST 2014


Yes, the latest version of Slackware does not use systemd (thank god). The primary
benefit for me is that I have fine grained control over the boot process and can
strip out a bunch of things I don't need and make my boot process much faster.
(have been using Slackware since 1993, when it was still called SLS; I now have it
installed on all of my desktops and laptops).

-Borries

On Mon, Dec 01, 2014 at 09:35:28AM -0600, Jason Mann wrote:
> As far as i know, slackware and gentoo are the lone holdouts from systemd.
> Most other distros are derived from redhat or debian.
> On Dec 1, 2014 9:19 AM, <alesmerises at satx.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> > Yeah, what he said.
> >
> > Seriously, thanks.
> >
> > So based on your explanation, using systemd really isn't an issue if
> > everything is working ok and you're only doing a 'standard' installation.
> > But if you need to do some customization and/or run into some start-up
> > problems, using systemd could make things harder for you.  Is that about it?
> >
> > Also, do you know of somewhere that might list which particular distros
> > use systemd or not?
> >
> > Al Lesmerises
> >
> >
> > ---- Borries Demeler <demeler at biochem.uthscsa.edu> wrote:
> > > Nicely explained, thanks Bruce!
> > >
> > > -Borries
> > >
> > > On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 11:32:50PM -0600, Bruce Dubbs wrote:
> > > > Alan Lesmerises wrote:
> > > > >On 11/30/2014 1:19 PM, Don Davis wrote:
> > > > >>Yep. It's an important move. As a mere mortal, I'm concerned about
> > the
> > > > >>monolithic nature of systemd and other monolithic snowballing. I
> > > > >>probably won't switch to Devuan until the summer, which will give me
> > > > >>a.) time to tweak and b.) and opportunity to see whether the fork is
> > > > >>being updated. On 11/30/2014 01:10 PM, Bruce Dubbs wrote:
> > > > >>>Did anyone else see this? https://devuan.org/ What do you think? --
> > > > >>>Bruce
> > > > >
> > > > >For us mere mortals (i.e., those of us that don't get into the weeds
> > of
> > > > >Linux), exactly what is "systemd"and what does it do? And what do you
> > > > >mean by it being "monolithic"?
> > > >
> > > > sysvinit is the traditional process that boots the system.  The file
> > > > name is /sbin/init and normally works by calling bash scripts.  From
> > > > a maintenance point of view, it consists of about 10,000 lines of C
> > > > code and the scripts on some distros run to another 10,000 lines.
> > > >
> > > > systemd consists of about 275,000 lines of code and includes the
> > > > folowiong services.
> > > >
> > > >     cgroups support
> > > >     consoled
> > > >     hostnamed
> > > >     journald
> > > >     localed
> > > >     logind
> > > >     machined
> > > >     networkd
> > > >     resolved
> > > >     shutdownd
> > > >     timedated
> > > >     timesyncd
> > > >     udevd
> > > >     libudev
> > > >
> > > > The problem is that you must install all of them, even if you don't
> > > > want or need them.  That is why it is called monolithic.
> > > >
> > > > It has also influenced systems like Gnome that you can't run them
> > > > without systemd, even though all those services can easily be
> > > > provided by other individual programs.
> > > >
> > > > If there is problem at boot time, systemd can be hard to debug.
> > > > It's complex.  With sysv, you just add init=/bin/bash to the kernel
> > > > command line and run the scripts one at a time.
> > > >
> > > > systemd is a solution looking for a problem.
> > > >
> > > >   -- Bruce
> > > >
> > > > --
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